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  #151 (permalink)  
Old January 15, 2010, 06:14 PM
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Thats not the point I was try to get across. The point was that it is possible to get the latest hardware but you have to pay. Also they use laptop parts so no the regular PC guy has not been running the Core i7 laptop and core i5 laptop CPU for a while now.
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  #152 (permalink)  
Old January 15, 2010, 06:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canker View Post
IMO, Apple should just sell an Apple branded mainboard and let people build their own rigs.
Hey, that's actually fairly awesome... a DIY Mac without dealing with the Hackintosh aspect.

Hopefully they priced the Mac mb at a decent price point though IE: under $400

Quote:
Originally Posted by belgolas View Post
Well interesting read. Although there is one part I want to correct with Perineum because he hates spreading FUD. The FUD that you stated was mac always have old hardware. You are utterly and completely wrong.
I meant for the price. When you look at comparable systems from PC to Mac the PC is better spec and the Mac is older hardware, generally.

That holds true unless you're talking top of the line Mac stuff, at which the price point goes through the roof. Sure, it's the latest parts then but then who really wants to pay for it?

Last edited by Perineum; January 15, 2010 at 06:27 PM.
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  #153 (permalink)  
Old January 15, 2010, 06:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canker View Post
Go to apple.ca/store and look at what they sell for iMacs.

They START at $1,299 and carry a Core 2 DUO. If you want an I7, you have to select a 27" iMac with an I5 (which costs $2,099) and customize it to add an I7. That's right, if you want to go quad core on a Mac you're looking at a minimum of $2000. Besides which, Apple only got the speed bump to the I7. This only happened in October 2009, regular PC owners have had the I7 for a while longer. Besides that, the only exclusive hardware Apple gets is with Intel, they have no such arrangement with AMD, so unless you're willing to always bet on intel having the bestest and fastest, your correction is actually incorrect.

When Apple does a refresh every 6 months or so, they tend to stay competitive in processing power and displays with what's current, but they quickly fall behind after a couple months, and their price premiums start to look silly.

IMO, Apple should just sell an Apple branded mainboard and let people build their own rigs.
I urge you to find me a better priced all-in-one computer from any manufacturer. I have my doubts you will. The screen alone on the 27" will sell alone for over $1000. And considering they are the only manufacturer currently out w/ such a display so you may be hard pressed to find one.

Apple started using i7's they moment Intel released the LGA1156 variants. Apple isn't dumb enough to put a 130w CPU inside a case that is an inch thick. That is like the companies out there that put LGA1366 CPU's in a notebook.
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  #154 (permalink)  
Old January 15, 2010, 08:54 PM
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Originally Posted by lowfat View Post
I urge you to find me a better priced all-in-one computer from any manufacturer. I have my doubts you will. The screen alone on the 27" will sell alone for over $1000. And considering they are the only manufacturer currently out w/ such a display so you may be hard pressed to find one.
You're assuming the majority of people want a monoputer which can't be upgraded. Most people don't, because they don't want to be without their computer if something simple like a webcam breaks. If you had a home theater set up like a Mac, if one speaker were blown you'd have to send the TV, receiver, speakers, amplifier, remote, DVD player, media center, wiring, etc... all out for repair.

Future Shop

A 27" Samsung LCD is currently $449 at Futureshop. Samsung also has a 3 year warranty, while Apple only has a one year warranty without paying for Applecare. No Apple user will ever suggest not buying Applecare, because they know the repair cost for an out of warranty Mac will nearly always exceed it's replacement cost.

Oh, free shipping from Futureshop!

Now, I know what you're going to say, Apple's 27" displays are the best, Samsung can't compare, and in that you're right. A cheap Samsung 27" display will probably display white without a nasty nicotine yellow tinge at the bottom.

Apple - Support - Discussions - Yellow tinge from bottom to top of the ...

Eek! I hope nobody accuses me of being a google/wikipedia/search-engine-monger because I googled a thread I had once read on discussions.apple.com. I'm very, very sorry if this harms any tender sensibilities and renders feelings hurt or causes one to fear wasting time engaging in useless discussion on message forums which otherwise would have been used productively. As we all know, message forums are otherwise productive places to spend your time.

Maybe if I spent an extra $500 I could buy a yellow tinged Samsung 27"...

I urge you to find me a modular I5 or I7 Macintosh which costs less than any manufacturer.

I urge you to find me an AMD based Macintosh which costs less than any manufacturer.

I urge you to find me a PPC based Macintosh which costs less than any manufacturer.

Do you see where I'm heading here? Trying to find an exact comparison with a Macintosh is going to be difficult because Apple's focus is pretty narrow. A general Macintosh user is expected not to want to upgrade their graphics card, display, processor, webcam, sound, HSF, etc... ever. A PC user might not either, but sites like HWC kind of go against that line of thought.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lowfat
Apple started using i7's they moment Intel released the LGA1156 variants. Apple isn't dumb enough to put a 130w CPU inside a case that is an inch thick. That is like the companies out there that put LGA1366 CPU's in a notebook.
You're probably right. The last few models of iMac have suffered from overheating issues, and I'm not sure Apple's iMac power supplies are already working within an inch of their life, and are not really customer replaceable. Of course, this kind of proves the original point that Apple isn't always cutting edge.

I wonder what will happen when Intel's contract with Apple expires and all the other third party OEM's have equal access to first run products from Intel. More importantly, what kind of lasting damage is Intel doing to their relationships with other third party vendors by giving Apple preferential treatment?
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  #155 (permalink)  
Old January 15, 2010, 09:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Canker View Post
You're assuming the majority of people want a monoputer which can't be upgraded. Most people don't, because they don't want to be without their computer if something simple like a webcam breaks.
How many non-enthusiasts upgrade their computers? Damn near none. I wish more manufacturers would make a good all-on-one. Dell makes an alright one but getting outdated. HP's & Sony's are pretty much garbage.

Quote:
A 27" Samsung LCD is currently $449 at Futureshop. Samsung also has a 3 year warranty, while Apple only has a one year warranty without paying for Applecare. No Apple user will ever suggest not buying Applecare, because they know the repair cost for an out of warranty Mac will nearly always exceed it's replacement cost.
Yay for comparing a 1920x1200 TN panel w/ CCFL backlighting vs a 2560x1440 E-IPS LED backlit display. Like I said, there are currently zero manufacturers using this panel. Dell will be selling one soon. For a whopping $1050USD w/o LED backlighting. I never said Apple's don't break. All manufacters have faults. The screen is made by LG, you can blame them for sending out faulty panels.
Quote:
I urge you to find me a modular I5 or I7 Macintosh which costs less than any manufacturer.

Do you see where I'm heading here? Trying to find an exact comparison with a Macintosh is going to be difficult because Apple's focus is pretty narrow
.

I can agree w/ that. Apple really does need a computer to fill the void in between a Mac Mini and the Mac Pro.
Quote:
You're probably right. The last few models of iMac have suffered from overheating issues, and I'm not sure Apple's iMac power supplies are already working within an inch of their life, and are not really customer replaceable. Of course, this kind of proves the original point that Apple isn't always cutting edge.
Apple issues are always blown way out of proportion. 5 people post about a similar problem they have and all of a sudden we have an epidemic. The difference in the number of users that post on the Apple discussion boards compared to other manufactuers is huge. If someone posted about an issue w/ a dell on a dell support forum a very small fraction of people would see/comment on the post compared to Apple.

There hasn't been any real overheating 'issues' w/ an iMac since the G5. The reason being G5's ran as hot a furnace. One of the bigger reasons they dropped IBM.
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  #156 (permalink)  
Old January 15, 2010, 11:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowfat View Post
Apple issues are always blown way out of proportion. 5 people post about a similar problem they have and all of a sudden we have an epidemic. The difference in the number of users that post on the Apple discussion boards compared to other manufactuers is huge. If someone posted about an issue w/ a dell on a dell support forum a very small fraction of people would see/comment on the post compared to Apple.
I don't really agree with that. I never cared about any manufacturing faults until Apple "enthusiasts" told me I was a moron for having a PC. And besides, all I've ever heard from Mac owners is that they never break.

Now I make sure to point out all issues with Macs.

Mind you HWC isn't my target audience. I think people here are pretty reasonable and mature. I think it's a good thing when someone gets a Mac and they are happy with it.

... just don't go telling me I'm wrong for having a PC.

I think it's been mentioned by Skytml, chriskwarren, myself and others that the issue isn't Macs at all, it's the cultist... err.. "Apple enthusiasts".
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  #157 (permalink)  
Old January 16, 2010, 12:35 AM
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Originally Posted by lowfat View Post
How many non-enthusiasts upgrade their computers? Damn near none.
The non enthusiasts take their computer in to be upgraded, the same as the Apple crowd. Someone must be buying these $800 graphics cards, right? They're obviously not all going into new builds.

Quote:
Yay for comparing a 1920x1200 TN panel w/ CCFL backlighting vs a 2560x1440 E-IPS LED backlit display.
Indeed, and three cheers for choice! Hip hip, hooray! Perhaps I didn't want a 2560x1440 LCD in the first place. Perhaps I wanted an I5 based computer with a 19" display because I don't have enough room on my desk for a 27" LCD. The average enthusiast probably doesn't realize what resolution they're operating in beyond complaining about everything being too big, or too small.

Quote:
Like I said, there are currently zero manufacturers using this panel. Dell will be selling one soon. For a whopping $1050USD w/o LED backlighting. I never said Apple's don't break. All manufacters have faults. The screen is made by LG, you can blame them for sending out faulty panels.
I thought it was the tight integration between Apple's hardware and their software which commands the price premium. If the part is defective, it's Apple's obligation to replace it. So far they're doing what they typically do in these situations, deny the problem exists, replace them to the loudest complainers, and quietly work on fixing it in an updated model.

Quote:
Apple issues are always blown way out of proportion. 5 people post about a similar problem they have and all of a sudden we have an epidemic.
Did you see how many pages there were in that discussions thread? Don't forget that this is on Apple's own discussion forums, which are pretty heavily censored. If it's that many pages long, you can be absolutely sure it's not an understated problem.

I wouldn't say Apple's issues are blown out of proportion, they're usually under reported. Apple's third world labour is the same as HP, Dell, Lenovo, etc... the first gen Macbook logic board and the Mac Mini logic board was made by the same factory Asus boards are made. The Mac Pro's logic board is made by Intel.

Quote:
There hasn't been any real overheating 'issues' w/ an iMac since the G5. The reason being G5's ran as hot a furnace. One of the bigger reasons they dropped IBM.
I disagree. I apologize in advance for any hurt feelings and the potential time waste which may result in my using google to back up my assertion.

overheating imac site:discussions.apple.com - Google Search

Don't misunderstand me here, I don't hate Apple computers, in many ways they're a pleasure to use, but I'm not about to spend $700 on a Mac Mini (plus keyboard and mouse since they're not included) when I can buy a decent quad core box for the same price. I'm not going to spend $2500 for an I5 based 27" iMac when I can buy an I7 based PC and customize it how I want for much less money.

Apple has the $2500+ market pretty well sewn up because of vendor lockin. Everyone knows that a PC vendor who sells a computer for $2500 today will find their competitor selling something better for $2400 tomorrow. If you want a Mac, you have to buy what you're given and live with it. If you want a Windows PC, the sky is your limit, you can even buy a Mac to run Windows.
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  #158 (permalink)  
Old January 16, 2010, 12:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Canker View Post
I disagree. I apologize in advance for any hurt feelings and the potential time waste which may result in my using google to back up my assertion.

overheating imac site:discussions.apple.com - Google Search
Read some of this links. On the first page of results there isn't a single overheating problem w/ a computer that isn't a G5. The ones who claim it is are just ignorant users once you read the thread.
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  #159 (permalink)  
Old January 16, 2010, 11:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canker View Post
you can even buy a Mac to run Windows.
Or build your own PC and run OSX on it. That way everyone gets what they want!
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