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  #21 (permalink)  
Old June 12, 2012, 11:15 AM
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Enough of my joking hatred aside I got my demo MBP on the way for tomorrow but after looking over specs and talking with my Buddy Brandon(Apple OSX Division) We came to some conclusions with the new MBP's Retina Edition.

Issues
Price is a joke its insane for the features you get.
650 is not enough raw balls for the high resolution
The Ram is soldered to the board and the Flash HDD is going to fail and fail fast
The ram is the same ram we had a big issue with before as it would fail and we would swap a stick... now its stuck to the board so you need a whole new logic board if your ram fails.

Pluses
The screen looks ******* amazing on photos and on 1080p games very clear.
The thin design is nice but it puts off lots of heat when we push the system at all.
USB 3.0 very nice as its about time haha
the CPU is awesome there is nothing bad to say about the CPU
The Boot time is fast and the drive makes no heat (its flash)

Final Thought
You will get that from me in 3 months, why 3 months? cuz I find that most new macs start having issues either out of the box or at 3 month intervals, 3 6 9 12 months are the times we get lots in.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old June 12, 2012, 11:25 AM
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Thanks for the breakdown. I'm really surprised they actually soldered the ram to the board. Shitty deal. Hopefully they aren't going to be doing that with the rest of the lineup anytime soon.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old June 12, 2012, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mars View Post
It won't do this - if you have the OS set to 1440x900 mode, raster images will look exactly the same as if you were at 1440x900, as every pixel of image data will be represented by 4 pixels on the screen. Text and UI elements will be the same size as they would be at 1440x900, but will be more detailed.

Um yeah....no. Thats not how it works. Step away from the Apple reality distortion field.

If you have a 800x600 image (very common on the net) and view it on a higher DPI screen it will either be a lot smaller than it would be on a 800x600 monitor OR be unevenly "upsized" and look like crap (ie interpolation == piss poor images). Very...VERY few images upconvert and still look like anything other than shite as very...very few images will go perfectly into a given screens native res.

For example 640xN, 800xN, 1024xN, 1200xN images will ALL look like crap. ONLY ones that could potential be alright are 360, 720 and 1440 x N....and even then it will still look a crap ton less sharp than it would otherwise look. Why is that? Simply..just because you can perfect scale it at say 4 to 1...does make it have 4x the details....rather you have just INCREASED the virtual dot SIZE of the image!
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old June 12, 2012, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AkG View Post
Um yeah....no. Thats not how it works. Step away from the Apple reality distortion field.

If you have a 800x600 image (very common on the net) and view it on a higher DPI screen it will either be a lot smaller than it would be on a 800x600 monitor OR be unevenly "upsized" and look like crap (ie interpolation == piss poor images). Very...VERY few images upconvert and still look like anything other than shite as very...very few images will go perfectly into a given screens native res.

For example 640xN, 800xN, 1024xN, 1200xN images will ALL look like crap. ONLY ones that could potential be alright are 360, 720 and 1440 x N....and even then it will still look a crap ton less sharp than it would otherwise look. Why is that? Simply..just because you can perfect scale it at say 4 to 1...does make it have 4x the details....rather you have just INCREASED the virtual dot SIZE of the image!
What I described is exactly how it works.

The size of the original image has no impact on the quality, unless you're trying to view every image fullscreen or something.

If you use 1440x900 scaling every single image you view will be exactly the same size as on a 1440x900 display, except with 4x the pixels. An 800x600 image will show onscreen as 1600x1200 pixels, and will look the same as (no better or worse) as the same image on a 1440x900 screen.

Anandtech has a blurb that explains the scaling options, with some screenshots: AnandTech - How the Retina Display MacBook Pro Handles Scaling
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old June 12, 2012, 01:17 PM
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It looks like Anad used screen capture to get the upscaled pictures...that takes the data from the GPU...NOT the actual screen. Lets see actual photos of websites as displayed on a the retina display.

The fact of the matter is even when dealing with PERFECT 1/2/4/6 way upscalling (which as I stated earlier will be rare)...the fact still remains that upscaling never looks good as a true higher def image. If it did we would all still be using 480p for movies...not 1080p...and simply letting our TVs "upscale" our DVDs.

Dont believe me. Heres a simple test. Grab a jpeg...say the beaver on HWC. Now make it FOUR TIMES LARGER in photoshop. IF you think that it doesnt look fuzzy around the edges you dont understand how lossy compression works. :/

Until the 'net moves to rastor or even loss-less stds upscalling images look like shite.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old June 12, 2012, 01:38 PM
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Yeah, Anand use screen capture to get the pictures, they're pixel for pixel exactly what you see on the laptop.

Why would perfect upscaling be rare? Everything gets upsized by exactly 2.

Obviously upscaling doesn't look as good as true higher def image, I made that point in both of my posts.

If I grab the HWC beaver and make it 4x the size (double both horizontal and vertical, no interpolation), and place it on a 3840x2400 24" monitor that is directly beside my 1920x1200 24" monitor, it's going to look the same (same physical size, same image quality) on both monitors.
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Old June 12, 2012, 01:59 PM
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So this is gonna be the new official $2200 twitter machine for "trendy" students everywhere.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old June 12, 2012, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake_HT View Post
So this is gonna be the new official $2200 twitter machine for "trendy" students everywhere.
purchased by their parents, because it's 'necessary' for them to get good marks in college.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old June 12, 2012, 02:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mars View Post
Yeah, Anand use screen capture to get the pictures, they're pixel for pixel exactly what you see on the laptop.

Why would perfect upscaling be rare? Everything gets upsized by exactly 2.

Obviously upscaling doesn't look as good as true higher def image, I made that point in both of my posts.

If I grab the HWC beaver and make it 4x the size (double both horizontal and vertical, no interpolation), and place it on a 3840x2400 24" monitor that is directly beside my 1920x1200 24" monitor, it's going to look the same (same physical size, same image quality) on both monitors.
/sigh

OK one last time.

The images will NOT look the same. YES they will be the same bloody "size" on the screen. BUT the upscalled one will have ONE QUARTER THE DPI / RESOLUTION. Upscalling means what was once 1 blue dot is now 4 blue dots. 1 green...4....1 red....4. It. Will. Be. Fuzzy.

Most jpgs on the net are at best 300dpi resolution. Lets make it easy and say the beaver logo is at 320dpi at 480p res. Up-scalling it will net a four times the size image but by doing so will net the equivalent of 80 dots per inch. Lossy compression means you cant just add in the "missing" details. The OS will guess...but it will be a guess. Dot size matters with images.

Once again. Either the images will look worse than they would on a normal screen OR they will be smaller. Thats. The. Only. Two. Possible. Outcomes. As. There. Is. No. Magical. Device. That. Adds. Resolution. To. Lossey. Images.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old June 12, 2012, 02:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Perineum View Post
necessary feature? No, not even close.
In smartphones like I was talking about? Retina screens are definitely a necessary feature. No one in their right mind would get a phone that didn't have one. Look at all the major smartphones. iPhone 4S, Galaxy SIII, HTC One X, Galaxy Nexus, etc. they all have retina screens...

Quote:
Originally Posted by AkG View Post
/sigh

OK one last time.

The images will NOT look the same. YES they will be the same bloody "size" on the screen. BUT the upscalled one will have ONE QUARTER THE DPI / RESOLUTION. Upscalling means what was once 1 blue dot is now 4 blue dots. 1 green...4....1 red....4. It. Will. Be. Fuzzy.

Most jpgs on the net are at best 300dpi resolution. Lets make it easy and say the beaver logo is at 320dpi at 480p res. Up-scalling it will net a four times the size image but by doing so will net the equivalent of 80 dots per inch. Lossy compression means you cant just add in the "missing" details. The OS will guess...but it will be a guess. Dot size matters with images.

Once again. Either the images will look worse than they would on a normal screen OR they will be smaller. Thats. The. Only. Two. Possible. Outcomes. As. There. Is. No. Magical. Device. That. Adds. Resolution. To. Lossey. Images.
I guess it's a miracle how phone's do it then. Look at iPhone apps that were designed for 480x320 resolution (the iPhone 3GS). When you display the same app on the iPhone 4, it looks identical. There no fussiness or anything your describing.

Also, I use my iPad 3 with HiDPI mode (makes everything crisper, not smaller) as an external display for my computer, and there is nothing that you are describing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soullessone21 View Post
Enough of my joking hatred aside I got my demo MBP on the way for tomorrow but after looking over specs and talking with my Buddy Brandon(Apple OSX Division) We came to some conclusions with the new MBP's Retina Edition.

Issues
Price is a joke its insane for the features you get.
650 is not enough raw balls for the high resolution
The Ram is soldered to the board and the Flash HDD is going to fail and fail fast
The ram is the same ram we had a big issue with before as it would fail and we would swap a stick... now its stuck to the board so you need a whole new logic board if your ram fails.

Pluses
The screen looks ******* amazing on photos and on 1080p games very clear.
The thin design is nice but it puts off lots of heat when we push the system at all.
USB 3.0 very nice as its about time haha
the CPU is awesome there is nothing bad to say about the CPU
The Boot time is fast and the drive makes no heat (its flash)

Final Thought
You will get that from me in 3 months, why 3 months? cuz I find that most new macs start having issues either out of the box or at 3 month intervals, 3 6 9 12 months are the times we get lots in.
Have you confirmed that the flash is the same though. Read on MacRumors I think that the new air is using 500 MBps flash, so that would imply apple switched out their flash chips for better, newer ones.

Last edited by SneakySnake; June 12, 2012 at 02:35 PM.
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