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  #91 (permalink)  
Old April 1, 2011, 11:50 PM
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Originally Posted by lowfat View Post
Dissying rate eh? OS 7/8/9 applications was supported in OS X through Classic Environment for over 5 years after they quit selling OS9. Then they quit supporting PowerPC in Snow Leopard. Snow Leopard is a 64-bit OS, kind of hard to install a 64-bit OS on CPU's that are not.
You're right, supporting 17 years of software for a big 5 years was mighty nice of Apple. Every K12 environment loved that, especially when they bought intel Macs and had to start throwing out 17 years of software.

There is one rather expensive K12 software title called SuccessMaker which had to be bought 3 times over in Macintosh schools in a 7 year period. Once for Classic OS, again for OS X with a rather horrific kludge to work under it, and a third time to adopt a web based version of it because the OS X version never worked right. The software licensing cost makes Photoshop seem cheap in comparison.

As far as I know, the Win32 application designed around Windows 98 still runs fine on Windows 7 64 bit.

This is not an isolated incident.

Schools who went and bought a rack and populated it with XServes are scratching their heads wondering WTF is going to happen long term. XServe is gone, OS X Server is going to be incorporated into OS X Lion, and Apple is dumping Samba and rolling their own SMB client. I'm sure that will be a really smooth migration from OS X Snow Leopard to OS X Liion, and Apple will fully support migrating over all the options in smb.conf with whatever they make. But remember what Apple says about OS X Server, "No IT Department required!"

Mac Software - Buy Mac Applications, Utilities, and Games - Apple Store (U.S.) Look at all the software which runs on OS X Tiger and below!

I can't believe they are still selling a "Wireless N" enabler for $1.99 on that webpage.

InformIT: Top Ten Highs and Lows of a Decade with Cocoa > Lows

I'M WRONG!

Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard compatibility table - Snow Leopard Compatibility

Last edited by Canker; April 2, 2011 at 12:05 AM.
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  #92 (permalink)  
Old April 2, 2011, 12:10 AM
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So you are saying that malware creators care if their virus is compatible w/ a 5 year old OS? I guess it has nothing to do w/ the fact that they get hit 8-9x as many computers w/ the same amount of work.

And no not all applications written for Win98 will work in Windows 7 64-bit. Hell there are tons of applications designed for Windows XP that won't work w/ Windows 7 64-bit.
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  #93 (permalink)  
Old April 2, 2011, 12:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canker View Post
There is one rather expensive K12 software title called SuccessMaker which had to be bought 3 times over in Macintosh schools in a 7 year period. Once for Classic OS, again for OS X with a rather horrific kludge to work under it, and a third time to adopt a web based version of it because the OS X version never worked right. The software licensing cost makes Photoshop seem cheap in comparison.
It sounds like they were successfuly raking in the cash, but not successfully writing the program.(not that this part mattered as long as it sold) :P
I guess it really did work!

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Originally Posted by Canker View Post
I can't believe they are still selling a "Wireless N" enabler for $1.99 on that webpage.
Quote:
Apple is required to charge you for the enabler. 802.11n was R & D intensive; it's not your granny's WiFi. You can't amortize R & D costs against new products--in this case, AirPort Extreme and Apple TV--and then give that same R & D away somewhere else. That would create what's called an accounting irregularity, and these aren't popular at places like Apple and Dell just now. The only way to put 802.11n into existing Mac users' hands was to turn it into a product against which R & D could be charged. $1.99 is a token, the very least that Apple could charge you and still call the enabler a product. If Apple hadn't come up with this sound solution, you'd have to buy AirPort Extreme--an extraordinary product, as you'll read in my review--or wait for Leopard in order to get 802.11n.
The whole truth about Apple's 802.11n Enabler | Platforms - InfoWorld

Quote:
According to the editor, the fee stems from a law called the Sarbanes-Oxley Act, which supposedly prohibits Apple from giving away an unadvertised new feature of an already sold product without enduring some onerous accounting measures.

"Because of the Act, the company believes that if it sells a product, then later adds a feature to that product, it can be held liable for improper accounting if it recognizes revenue from the product at the time of sale, given that it hasn’t finished delivering the product at that point," he wrote.
AppleInsider | Apple to impose 802.11n unlocking fee on Intel Mac owners


I am preeeety sure that it was only for Tiger(10.4) on certain x86 Macs.. and that it was included with Leopard (10.5) and with Snow Leopard (10.6)
We are now approaching Lion (10.7). Developer Preview 2 was released recently IIRC.

Last edited by MacJunky; April 2, 2011 at 12:24 AM.
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  #94 (permalink)  
Old April 2, 2011, 12:41 AM
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So you are saying that software developers care if their software is only compatible with the newest version of an operating system? I guess it has nothing to do w/ the fact they have been 7 versions of OS X in 10 years.


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Originally Posted by lowfat View Post
So you are saying that malware creators care if their virus is compatible w/ a 5 year old OS? I guess it has nothing to do w/ the fact that they get hit 8-9x as many computers w/ the same amount of work.

And no not all applications written for Win98 will work in Windows 7 64-bit. Hell there are tons of applications designed for Windows XP that won't work w/ Windows 7 64-bit.
Come on, you're buying that?

Apple was "required" to charge $1.99 to everyone who fell under the criteria instead of quietly eating it themselves? That's as big a crock as Jobsy saying Blu-Ray is a bag of hurt, and charging $150 for a $20 Lite-On DVD Writer. It was a cheap, cheap stunt, something which would probably be even beneath eMachines and totally inexcusable.


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Originally Posted by MacJunky View Post
It sounds like they were successfuly raking in the cash, but not successfully writing the program.(not that this part mattered as long as it sold) :P
I guess it really did work!

The whole truth about Apple's 802.11n Enabler | Platforms - InfoWorld

AppleInsider | Apple to impose 802.11n unlocking fee on Intel Mac owners


I am preeeety sure that it was only for Tiger(10.4) on certain x86 Macs.. and that it was included with Leopard (10.5) and with Snow Leopard (10.6)
We are now approaching Lion (10.7). Developer Preview 2 was released recently IIRC.

Last edited by JD; April 3, 2011 at 09:37 AM.
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  #95 (permalink)  
Old April 2, 2011, 12:50 PM
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Never said I was buying it.
And the fact that 10.5 came out not too long after and the enabler was then outdated.. *shrug*
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  #96 (permalink)  
Old April 2, 2011, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Canker View Post
NO, YOU ARE!
Go learn a bit about how viruses works and general OS inner working to see why you are wrong the first time I quoted you.
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  #97 (permalink)  
Old April 2, 2011, 05:43 PM
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Go learn a bit about IT in general and work with the Macintosh in a corporate environment to see why you are wrong, and I am right.

Go deal with Macintosh developers in general and coding for OS specific inner workings to see why you are wrong, and I am right.

You are wrong, and as the MCP said to the trivial program, EOL.

Quote:
Originally Posted by m1dget View Post
Go learn a bit about how viruses works and general OS inner working to see why you are wrong the first time I quoted you.

Last edited by Canker; April 2, 2011 at 05:50 PM.
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  #98 (permalink)  
Old April 2, 2011, 07:48 PM
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It is fact that the prequisite vulnerabilities for Windows-like malware exist in OS X as proven by years of Apple vulnerability bulletins and demonstrated in hacking competitions throughout the years. That OS X is vulnerable isn't even debatable. To suggest otherwise is pure fantasy.

For example...
Quote:
The conception that Apple, Inc. computers running OS X are magically more secure than Windows computers was dealt another setback this week. Using a flaw in Apple's pre-installed first-party Safari browser, it took French security pro Chaouki Bekrar merely 5 seconds to hijack the unwitting MacBook at the CanSecWest Conference's pwn2own contest in Vancouver, British Columbia.
Quote:
In past years the contest has been dominated by OS X hacking/security pro Charlie Miller. So it was nice to see a fresh face for a change, though the MacBook was still the first to fall -- as usual. Mr. Miller sums up OS X security the best, with his famous remark, "Mac OS X is like living in a farmhouse in the country with no locks, and Windows is living in a house with bars on the windows in the bad part of town."
DailyTech - Apple's OS X is First OS to be Hacked at This Year's Pwn2Own

There are other factors to consider too. Not only is Windws in a dominant market position now, it has been so for almost 20 years. Crackers have been testing Windows NT network security since its release in 1993 -- in LAN environments back then. I believe the icon parsing vulnerability used in stuxnet goes back as far and may even predate Windows 98.

No other line of operating systems has been as dissected, analyzed and documented in terms of security research; not even remotely close. As a result, there are vast resouces available to those who write malware for Windows. You don't even really need to know how to program to make your own.

Windows operating systems also have very large shares of the public and private server markets, increasing its value as a target.

Last edited by Desiato; April 2, 2011 at 08:07 PM.
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  #99 (permalink)  
Old April 2, 2011, 08:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Perineum View Post
Wow, that's a great rebuttal...

It's no secret that Mac abandons computers and software at a dizzying rate. If MS did that people would be up in arms.
...MS has so much trouble BECAUSE of that. Why do you think that devs start whining more and more about MS dropping support of their own stuff? Gawd...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Neolithium_Wpg View Post
It's not totally wrong - and this is coming from someone who's becoming a Mac Junkie quickly. Viruses are coded for PC's because there is a massive target "audience" (For lack of a better term). If OSX were to instantly switch to the majority market share tomorrow, you'd see a whole @$$load of viruses pop up for it. And I hate to say it, but Linux does also have viruses and security issues, however those that run servers (Which is the primary Linux Market - servers) know how to keep tabs on it before anything becomes a problem.
That is the same plain argument even your "technologically impaired" grandma could give you. It's no secret that virus business IS a business and you need to target the platform with the biggest market share. On the other hand he was talking about somehow binaries no longer working because Apple would be magically changing Darwin's code so much each release. Thinking that is -ridiculous-.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Canker View Post
Go learn a bit about IT in general and work with the Macintosh in a corporate environment to see why you are wrong, and I am right.

Go deal with Macintosh developers in general and coding for OS specific inner workings to see why you are wrong, and I am right.

You are wrong, and as the MCP said to the trivial program, EOL.
1- Any kind of production environement doesn't change the way viruses load and run.
2- OSX dev working on a specific platform doesn't change the way viruses load and run unless they start hacking and doing major kernel changes.

Seriously man I'm disappointed in you every time you post something. It's just sad to see either uneducated opinion or just plain crap like that last quote. I HAZ XP SO I HAZ LE TRUTH. Pointless.
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  #100 (permalink)  
Old April 3, 2011, 05:02 AM
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For their intended niche, Macs are decent kit. Overpriced and very limited but very nice. If you like em...buy em. There are many many many worse choices out there! :)

With that being said, they are not perfect and the OS is not perfect. This is for the simple reason the people who USE them are not perfect, if it takes a popup up telling them to ACCEPT (like it usually does on MS OS' now) its going to run. Anyone who has dealt with an enviro bigger than their mom's basement know this.

As I have said in the past and others have said in this thread its not worth a malware creators time and effort to code for 8-10%. Normal mac users get this, mactards dont and foam at the mouth saying how its "perfect" and it could never happen on their beloved nix port (see above for how laughable that is).

Going by the number of posts are resident nix fanboi has posted in this thread I'd say thats how this convo is going to CONTINUE to go and this thread is going to die...just like all the ones before it have.

To the OP, enjoy your mac. Its easy to use, for the most part going to be trouble free (unless you get one of the many duds as it IS a laptop :)~ ) and if it isnt...RMA it. Their CS is second to none....just buy the apple care for it and you should be happy with your purchase. BUT there is no "best" or even "better" in laptops. You trade off one thing for another. IF your needs fit the Apple kit it will be awesome. :)
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