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  #51 (permalink)  
Old May 18, 2010, 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Remoth View Post
I know there are problems there, but like I said, to me and 99% of the people I know, the problems arent big enough to spend the extra cash on a mac. People love the idea of getting a great computer for $900. If you really care about the little things in the OS, then a mac is for you.

I know they use workstation parts in the Mac pro, but so what? The server version of the i7 is only like $20 more than the i7 920, and the motherboards arent much more than good desktop boards, Ram is like $20 more as well. Just because they are classified as workstations does not justify the double price tag. especially when in terms of functionality, the mac pro case is severely outdated. I wouldnt call it a workstation if it were inferior to a $100 case from newegg.... And I know, I know, other OEMs have workstations similar, and thats why I will never buy an OEM as long as I can build my own now.

And I know its a laptop problem, I still dont like it, lol.
Most decent ECC RAM is significantly more expensive than your regular desktop DDR3, it's almost a kick in the balls when you need more than 4GB. It unfortunately has worse performance for gaming than run of the mill RAM; but most Mac Pro users aren't looking for gaming performance anyway so it tends to be a nonissue.
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  #52 (permalink)  
Old May 18, 2010, 06:12 PM
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Sorry, but I still can't agree with you. What's your definition of a "closed system"? My mom's build is a closed system too. The OS is Windows 7 and all the hardware is controlled by me. Nothing changes in that system. No drivers to update. In fact, she's not running a "PC", she's running a "PerineumPC". It's my design and I control what happens to it. It's as closed as any Mac.

Your mom has problems with the Mac and it's just "stupid ones", whereas someone equally inept with computers does something and it's "Window's fault". However, your last statement of it being safer, I will agree with. At this point it is safer to use a Mac because of it's smaller market share. Most malware is written for the PC because of it's larger market share.
Sigh....

You can't use you example as you are not the average Joe.

Maybe I used the wrong word but OSX is more closed than Windows 7. Apple controls everything except if you add software. Meanwhile with windows they only control the basic OS. Apple controls all the drivers. So in a more "closed" system there should be less problems.

And as far as my mom. Yes she makes a lot less problems under Mac because the OS is harder to screw up. When she was on a windows computer she would be getting malware and spyware and all sorts of nasties. Is it the OS's fault? Not really but at least with OSX she doesn't have to worry about that.
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  #53 (permalink)  
Old May 18, 2010, 09:25 PM
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About customer satisfaction. I am not sure why they have the highest but everyone that I know that owns one loves it so maybe that has to do something with it.
To paste a conversation that I had in an IRC channel a month or so ago. (I am Oelmuvun)

<iMacC2D> what's incredible is I spent $180 on an old iPod
<iMacC2D> and still don't feel buyers remorse 6 weeks later
<Oelmuvun> the sound waves from the headphones are scrambling the section of your brain that is responsible for buyer's remorse. The Anti-Biremmitous Effect. That is why most of the people with iPods are mindless drone consumers commanded by large corporations.
* iMacC2D sobs
<iMacC2D> I see no issue with an iPod :(
<Oelmuvun> it hurts your brain!
<iMacC2D> music hurts the brain?
<iMacC2D> if you're listening to Lil' Wayne feat. Some Loser... perhaps
<Aquaraptor> Oelmuvun, how about speakers
<Oelmuvun> the iPods are designed to generate this specific wave
<Oelmuvun> the effect is greater with headphones than speakers, but you can fall victim with speakers too if you use an iPod with them
<Aquaraptor> and what if one experiences buyer's remorse after buying an ipod anyway?
<Oelmuvun> then, either they are buggering out the wave with a properly set EQ or they are one of the few who are immune.



Now keep in mind before flaming me that I have both Macs and PCs(too damn many, actually) ranging from 286 to my Phenom X4 and Mac Plus to .. my G4 >_> but I have also run Mac OS X on multiple PCs.. so that counts as newer? kinda?
*shrug*
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  #54 (permalink)  
Old May 18, 2010, 11:45 PM
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Originally Posted by belgolas View Post

Maybe I used the wrong word but OSX is more closed than Windows 7. Apple controls everything except if you add software. Meanwhile with windows they only control the basic OS. Apple controls all the drivers. So in a more "closed" system there should be less problems.

Basically, you're doing the "mac phenomenon".

You are taking one of the cons of owning a Mac and turning it into a pro.

Essentially, you're saying:

"Because the Mac is hardly upgradable it is better. Having very little choice in customizing your Mac means that no one really has to write drivers, make existing ones any better, or worry about QA control. Because of this, if the drivers simply work, even if they aren't efficient, it's good enough for us."

Much like my earlier example about the guy who got a replacement Mac for the one that died. He didn't have a Mac failure. He got a "free" laptop using a warranty he paid for. He'd score pretty high on the "customer satisfaction" reviews even though his Mac blew up.

I saw it in the Amiga world, I did some of it myself until I woke up.

You see it with Harley owners. They pay 4x the amount for a bike that barely functions and gets it's ass handed to it in every way by a touring/sport touring/sportbike of AZN make.

etc....
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  #55 (permalink)  
Old May 19, 2010, 06:53 AM
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Originally Posted by belgolas View Post
Sigh....

You can't use you example as you are not the average Joe.

Maybe I used the wrong word but OSX is more closed than Windows 7. Apple controls everything except if you add software. Meanwhile with windows they only control the basic OS. Apple controls all the drivers. So in a more "closed" system there should be less problems.

And as far as my mom. Yes she makes a lot less problems under Mac because the OS is harder to screw up. When she was on a windows computer she would be getting malware and spyware and all sorts of nasties. Is it the OS's fault? Not really but at least with OSX she doesn't have to worry about that.
It's crazy to get someone not computer literate to start off on OSX. Imho...

So, when she or a MAC user wants to borrow or try a Windoze user's hardware or a device, oops, out of luck! Yep, unfortunately, PCs have Windoze around 80% of the time so unless you're proficient at computers, I don't think it's really wise to introduce a Mac if that's their first computer... Just my perspective, though.

A major reason is the closed nature of Apple and although Windoze cannot escape guilt of this, there' widespread use of Windoze so much easier to 'get accustomed' to one's computer.

E.g. inexperienced computer user is having probs doing 'task A' and asks someone in chat (or on a forum) and they tell the person what to do.
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  #56 (permalink)  
Old May 19, 2010, 07:17 AM
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Originally Posted by technix View Post
E.g. inexperienced computer user is having probs doing 'task A' and asks someone in chat (or on a forum) and they tell the person what to do.
Apple forum?

Quote:
Originally Posted by perineum
Basically, you're doing the "mac phenomenon".

You are taking one of the cons of owning a Mac and turning it into a pro.

Essentially, you're saying:

"Because the Mac is hardly upgradable it is better. Having very little choice in customizing your Mac means that no one really has to write drivers, make existing ones any better, or worry about QA control. Because of this, if the drivers simply work, even if they aren't efficient, it's good enough for us."


I see it as a pro as well: whilst Windows Vista and 7 had launch issues because of drivers (like the nVidia ones for example), it was a non-issue for Mac OSX.

Restricting the quantity of hardware a system can support does not mean crappier drivers - it means a more solid base than can be fined tuned due to the stability of the platform.

And I wouldn't say that Macs are "hardly" upgradable - they are just "not" upgradable. As soon as you pop open your Mini, you can bet your @ss you've broken retaining pins off the lid and your warranty is void. Is that a con? To an overclocker, modder, etc - yes. To a regular user? No.
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  #57 (permalink)  
Old May 19, 2010, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Remoth View Post
I know there are problems there, but like I said, to me and 99% of the people I know, the problems arent big enough to spend the extra cash on a mac. People love the idea of getting a great computer for $900. If you really care about the little things in the OS, then a mac is for you.

I know they use workstation parts in the Mac pro, but so what? The server version of the i7 is only like $20 more than the i7 920, and the motherboards arent much more than good desktop boards, Ram is like $20 more as well. Just because they are classified as workstations does not justify the double price tag. especially when in terms of functionality, the mac pro case is severely outdated. I wouldnt call it a workstation if it were inferior to a $100 case from newegg.... And I know, I know, other OEMs have workstations similar, and thats why I will never buy an OEM as long as I can build my own now.

And I know its a laptop problem, I still dont like it, lol.
Have you looked inside a mac pro case? Outdated? It is easier to work on than ANY other system out there.

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  #58 (permalink)  
Old May 19, 2010, 04:22 PM
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[/i]I see it as a pro as well: whilst Windows Vista and 7 had launch issues because of drivers (like the nVidia ones for example), it was a non-issue for Mac OSX.

Restricting the quantity of hardware a system can support does not mean crappier drivers - it means a more solid base than can be fined tuned due to the stability of the platform.
Exactly.

Pros and Cons to every decision. You are reiterating my point exactly. Mac people just generally tend to only see one side of the equation rather than both.

It can be a real benefit in some ways, but is also a real detractor.
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  #59 (permalink)  
Old May 19, 2010, 05:18 PM
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Exactly.

Pros and Cons to every decision. You are reiterating my point exactly. Mac people just generally tend to only see one side of the equation rather than both.

It can be a real benefit in some ways, but is also a real detractor.
The glass is half full for some, half empty for others. That applies to everything. But I guess people that don't use Macs, or have never seen a Mac, just need to be right, right?

LOL @ Mac people, btw
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  #60 (permalink)  
Old May 19, 2010, 05:37 PM
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Have you looked inside a mac pro case? Outdated? It is easier to work on than ANY other system out there.

pic
Funny, maybe a month or 2 ago my G5 tower was throwing a fit due to overheating, So I thought I'd do some simple maintenance on it since none has ever really been done. When it came time to pull the HSF... oh wait, first there is this shroud that you have to practically break off to get to the HSF, lmao. Ya... really easy.

I do however LOVE the slide in HDD trays on my new Mac Tower. Hardly an Apple invention I'm sure but a nice touch.
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