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  #11 (permalink)  
Old May 16, 2010, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Nevakonaza View Post
Why are Macs so expensive?...id love one myself but i fail to see whats so good about them to make them so expensive?

For what you get,Spec wise that is....you could build a decent gaming machine.
For the macbooks, they are more expensive than the average but not by much for the same specs.
Though you have one nicely packaged machine with a damn nice OS.

For the desktop ones, if i may call them like that, they are workstation: not to be compared or mistaken with normal consumer desktop machines or gaming rigs like most of the members here have. They are aimed at professionals or people who -really- want them. Though they are built like servers which greatly helps for maintenance or changing parts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neolithium_Wpg View Post
Lots of macs use server grade hardware, plus tac on the AppleTax so Steve Jobs has the backup fund for another replacement liver, and you have yourself a Mac Pricetag.

Edit - As stupid as I think most of their practices are, I gotta admit I hit the Apple store this weekend taking a peek around and dodging the black turtleneck cult - er, sales staff; and found the MacBook Pro refreshes actually pretty goddamn nice....and I'm probably gonna get one for my next notebook purchase.

*ducks and covers*
Man, you can't whine against Apple store's sellers and geniuses... if they see you are mildly interested in buying anything they will do anything to have you buy it: showing you for hours how something works as a prime example.

Though if you are just there to sneak around and go "lolwut magic mouse awes0me *touchtouchtouch*", you won't get any attention :P

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Originally Posted by belgolas View Post
Ya I was thinking of getting a 15" macbook but then I looked at the price and I could get a 17" 4870 blueray laptop from ASUS for LESS. They make good quality hardware but they just don't offer anything cheaper portable. $1000 for the macbook is WAY too expensive for what you get with it.

Though one could always argue that you pay for the OS.
Sadly that's a fact... though more I read of your post, more I see that a Macbook is simply not suited for what you want to do. If you really a hardware guy and most of your friends/relative are, well you will simply going to be laughed at and going to sell it in a few weeks/months after having bought it.

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Originally Posted by Neolithium_Wpg View Post
I dunno, buying a copy of Snow Leopard is pretty damn cheap compared to a Microsoft OS. I quite like the Core i7 15" MBP....and unfortunately as embarassing as it is, the damn thing exceeds my current gaming rig in performance at BC2....
Teehee, you know you want one... or at least do a "good action" (don't know if it's the good word) and buy it "for" the wife as a gift and then jump on it when it's going to be setup, eh, well about 10 seconds after she will have taken it out of the packaging


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Originally Posted by Arinoth View Post
...for programming (most business run programs that are on the microsoft .net platform and the fact its easier to access in the C language family hardware then it is in macs), as well as the business would and well engineering.
I would agree with the first part if you were talking about business only since most of them indeed create sadly usually .NET stuff. Though for a casual programmer or one involved in open source projects, you can create and run any POSIX stuff, so I would say that the 'fun' is there more than anywhere else.
For a developer of anything Apple it's a must though.

I nearly barfed on myself for the second part though

Are you really trying to say that's it's -easier- to code in C under any windows than it is on OSX? o_O


Quote:
Originally Posted by AkG View Post
Lots of mac used to have server grade hardware. This was back in the PPC days, now they are no better then any of the other all in one kit from the other major PC mfg'ers... and can in fact be worse then some. Your paying the preimium for brand name (after all that mega advertising budget has to come from SOMEWHERE!) and the over all aesthetics of it, not the "robust" hardware. Software is another thing all together but dont fool yourself into thinking that the hardware never fails, or even fails less then any of the other big boys out there.
I have to agree with that. In the good old PPC day, any workstation or server were built like tanks; especially the watercooled ones. Those were amazing.
Today they are built with some foxconn board but still last more than the average consumer hardware we are used to see. Though the build quality is amazing; open a macbook or any mac and you can see it straight away. No cables loose, no nothing hanging off something else. Everything either on the pcb or very well hidden behind something else.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Perineum View Post
Yes they are overpriced.

If you have Widget A, and it's $5.95 and then you see Widget B for $7.50 it's fairly obvious that Widget B is better, right?

Pricing structure adds to the "Mac is better hardware myth". Actual fact is that companies like Asus and Nvidia supply the build/components, no different from HP and Dell.
Yes but widget A would have to be assembled and linked by hand and would be from badly coded out-of-date libs laying in a semi-defective server abandoned in a old IBM warehouse and widget B would have a self installer and would be optimised and nice (as in 'shiny') to look at.

You could still choose the A, but most of the market if they -knew- that widget B existed in the first place and would have the time to look at it < 3 sec would jump on it even if it's more expensive
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old May 16, 2010, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by m1dget View Post
I would agree with the first part if you were talking about business only since most of them indeed create sadly usually .NET stuff. Though for a casual programmer or one involved in open source projects, you can create and run any POSIX stuff, so I would say that the 'fun' is there more than anywhere else.
For a developer of anything Apple it's a must though.

I nearly barfed on myself for the second part though

Are you really trying to say that's it's -easier- to code in C under any windows than it is on OSX? o_O
Just going on my personal experience programming on windows and OSX and i found it was a lot easier to do low level programming, i'm talking hardware interfacing/communication under windows then OSX.
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old May 16, 2010, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Arinoth View Post
Just going on my personal experience programming on windows and OSX and i found it was a lot easier to do low level programming, i'm talking hardware interfacing/communication under windows then OSX.
What did you do exactly? Write drivers or just played with the ABI and asm + C?

And for communicating, are you talking about low level/layer sockets programming under windows?
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old May 16, 2010, 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted by FtGF View Post
I gotta say that is definitely not the best way to moderate especially on such a well behaved site.


LAME!
Actually if you look back through the Mac section, it's unfortunately a necessity. There are die-hard Apple Fans, die-hard PC fans and both passionately argue to hell and back. Unfortunately things get out of hand very quickly and people like me who enjoy many platforms, not just PC, just end up facepalming and going "WHY CAN'T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG!?"

m1dget - You know I'm most likely going to get the wife a 13" MBP, she took a look at a few, and one of the sales staff showed her a few things and it's the plug & play ease which she likes, and the aesthetics are unfortunately one of the more important things for her. Is it an expensive notebook? You betcha, I won't argue that point and I'm also not going to argue over which side of the fence is better since they both have their pros & cons. One of my friends swung by late this afternoon with his new 17" MBP and I played a few games via bootcamp and was pleasantly surprised at how decent the whole experience was.

I'm definitely looking into their laptops, also cause I want to dick around with some programming for the iPhone, being lazy I don't have the inclination right now to construct a nifty little hackintosh for the job, and I'm not going to grab a Mac Mini since its not as multi-purpose as some of the more powerful Apple products.
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  #15 (permalink)  
Old May 16, 2010, 05:40 PM
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I get it but it's still a turnoff when you see posts like that from Mods. Just deal with the people causing the problems.

And my post got erased with no explanation. Again LAME.
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  #16 (permalink)  
Old May 16, 2010, 05:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m1dget View Post
Yes but widget A would have to be assembled and linked by hand and would be from badly coded out-of-date libs laying in a semi-defective server abandoned in a old IBM warehouse and widget B would have a self installer and would be optimised and nice (as in 'shiny') to look at.

You could still choose the A, but most of the market if they -knew- that widget B existed in the first place and would have the time to look at it < 3 sec would jump on it even if it's more expensive

???

My point was that the widgets are the same. Perception is changed because someone is paying more for it..... so it is therefore better, even if they are not sure how.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old May 16, 2010, 05:58 PM
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Originally Posted by FtGF View Post
I get it but it's still a turnoff when you see posts like that from Mods. Just deal with the people causing the problems.

And my post got erased with no explanation. Again LAME.
I have a good idea for you; why don't you give your idea on if a mac is overpriced or not :)

1) it will keep the thread going

2) it won't get deleted (well... er... maybe)

3) it will give us an idea if you are just here to brew trouble or to make the thread interesting
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old May 16, 2010, 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Perineum View Post
???

My point was that the widgets are the same. Perception is changed because someone is paying more for it..... so it is therefore better, even if they are not sure how.
Yes, but unless I misunderstood your analogy you should not be comparing apples to apples since they are not the same. The widgets are not the same (if we are talking about mac/osx/pc/windows/*nix) under the hood even though they look alike.



(edit: sorry for double post mods o.o)
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old May 16, 2010, 06:03 PM
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Precisely m1dget. We've had too many MAC threads that have turned into flaming wars which we've had to close because one or many of parties couldnt be civil or stay on topic. Your post was deleted as it served no merit or purpose in the discussion of the topic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by m1dget View Post
What did you do exactly? Write drivers or just played with the ABI and asm + C?

And for communicating, are you talking about low level/layer sockets programming under windows?
A little of both actually. Had to do some hardware integration through usb through some custom drivers we had to write (which was easier with pc then for mac).


Experience i've had working at best buy, i can't really agree with you on their hardware reliability as i'd see countless macs going out for repair along with pcs. If you compare company by company not pc vs mac, you'll find most pc companies will have approximately the same reliability rate.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old May 16, 2010, 06:15 PM
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I think I'm tired.... but I'm not really understanding what you're saying, exactly....

Anyway I'm not trying to compare anything to anything. I'm simply saying that if 2 items are exact and one costs more (packaged nicer and more expensive) people will automagically think that the more expensive one is the same, even though it's the same thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arinoth View Post
Experience i've had working at best buy, i can't really agree with you on their hardware reliability as i'd see countless macs going out for repair along with pcs. If you compare company by company not pc vs mac, you'll find most pc companies will have approximately the same reliability rate.
Psst.. that's cause it's the same hardware
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