Hehe...

[Digikid]

Originally Posted by belgolas

Yes their incompetence is what brought them to own 90% of the market share.

Oh and ya Microsoft is such an evil company that they give away tons of money each year to charities. Apple gives $0.00 each year to charities and has been nominated as the least generous company.

Apple has become worse than Microsoft. I wouldn't buy their stuff but they make some really great products.

So don't go hating on Microsoft while saying Apple is an angel.

BOTH companies are morons. One is just as bad as the other. Greedy, Money Hungry and Selfish.

[H2O]

Originally Posted by AkG

I think the Apple interface is too Fisher Price for me, .

well put

Originally Posted by m1dget

It's like thinking that a company pouring toxic waste into a lake BUT giving money to a soup kitchen is -somehow- good. Non-sense.

go read this , I think Bill Gates go a little bit more far than soup kitchen.

Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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[SneakySnake]

Originally Posted by AkG

I think the Apple interface is too Fisher Price for me, and you can forget about getting under the hood via the GUI.

It's actually very easy to get under the hood via the GUI

How to get under the hood in OS X:

Way 1: Finder => Applications => Utilities => Terminal

Way 2: hit command+space, then type 'terminal' and press enter

Way 3: The entire OS is under the hood compared to Windows 7. Your not dealing with shortcuts and hidden files, the applications folder is the 'Program Files' folder. You right click an application and hit delete, it is then deleted, unlike when you delete something in windows. You have to run revo or something similar to get it all cleaned up

Anyone who says that OS X is to simple is saying so cuz they don't know how to use it. Do you think people who know nothing about computers (the average user) know how to get under the hood in windows?

[AkG]

Um not to be snide but you just proved my point for me sneakysnake. Reread my comment. The operative word in the sentence is GUI.

As in you have to go to a command line to do things. Command Line == Command Line. GUI==GUI. Command Line =/= GUI. They are separate and different beasts, requiring different skills and different training.

While I am old school and grew up working in the command line envrio (Dos and Unix actually), enthusiasts such as you and I are in the minority, most peeps are not skilled in both nor do they want to take the time to learn.

In the home enviro, point and click has been proven to be easier for beginners and non technical inclined users to grasp. Humans are mainly a visual creature, and learn best by show and tell. Its just harder to show writing and expect them to pick it up vs. show a GUI and just "get" it. You can teach a GUI interface in an afternoon, whereas command lines take longer as the user needs to memorize the commands.

On the business end of things this means it costs more time and money (via additional training) to teach younger peeps the command line interface. It also takes longer to type in commands then click. Anything that costs money or time is non optimal for businesses even if they are SOHO's. This is why we still dont use command lines and have gone to a GRAPHICAL User Interface.

In other words Apples just work, unless you need to go outside a very narrow window that Apple has ordained FOR you. This is why there is less conflicts as they have to program for much less variables. That was my point / rebuttal to m1dget's (paraphrasing here) "MS are the suxors who cant program". Nothing more, nothing less. Honest. ;)

[SneakySnake]

Originally Posted by AkG

Um not to be snide but you just proved my point for me sneakysnake. Reread my comment. The operative word in the sentence is GUI.

As in you have to go to a command line to do things. Command Line == Command Line. GUI==GUI. Command Line =/= GUI. They are separate and different beasts, requiring different skills and different training.

While I am old school and grew up working in the command line envrio (Dos and Unix actually), enthusiasts such as you and I are in the minority, most peeps are not skilled in both nor do they want to take the time to learn.

In the home enviro, point and click has been proven to be easier for beginners and non technical inclined users to grasp. Humans are mainly a visual creature, and learn best by show and tell. Its just harder to show writing and expect them to pick it up vs. show a GUI and just "get" it. You can teach a GUI interface in an afternoon, whereas command lines take longer as the user needs to memorize the commands.

On the business end of things this means it costs more time and money (via additional training) to teach younger peeps the command line interface. It also takes longer to type in commands then click. Anything that costs money or time is non optimal for businesses even if they are SOHO's. This is why we still dont use command lines and have gone to a GRAPHICAL User Interface.

In other words Apples just work, unless you need to go outside a very narrow window that Apple has ordained FOR you. This is why there is less conflicts as they have to program for much less variables. That was my point / rebuttal to m1dget's (paraphrasing here) "MS are the suxors who cant program". Nothing more, nothing less. Honest. ;)

Hmm I see your point, terminal definitely isn't GUI. I thought you meant get under the hood via the GUI. Out of curiosity though, how would you get under the hood in windows 7 then using the GUI ?

[H2O]

Originally Posted by SneakySnake

...... how would you get under the hood in windows 7 then using the GUI ?

type "regedit" in the search program and files of the start menu, that's only 1 exemple

[AkG]

MMC is another example. MS Mgmt Console. If you ever work on systems in a business envrio....you will get to know it (and its customizable snap-ins) PDQ.

[Arinoth]

YouTube - Microsoft or Apple, who stole first?

[m1dget]

Originally Posted by AkG

The fact of the matter is MS got where they were by being BETTER then the competition. In the Sever world Novel was king and MS was the upstart. MS simply out innovated them into oblivion. Same with earlier IE, IE was late to the party and was better then the last netscape version (that killed em and made it the LAST version). Have they slowed down and gotten more conservative...yup. Do they do nasty things to KEEP their lead....yup. But the fact of the matter is A) Apple is way to damn expensive on the hardware to ever be serious competition for the majority of the world B) apple has to code for an extremely small group of hardware so OF COURSE it is going to be easier and better C) MS works on so much hardware that all they can do is do "jack of all trades, master of none" level programming lest they break older hardware compatibility (whereas Apple has no probs giving older users the middle finger) D) *nix is not ready for prime time and probably never will be. It may be based on a better model, but its to little to late. E) YMMV on the GUI. I think the Apple interface is too Fisher Price for me, and you can forget about getting under the hood via the GUI. Its made brain dead simple and that is the crux of its success with peeps and why Business dont and cant take it seriously.

Putting Microsoft and innovation in the same sentence is an oxymoron. It's like their product "Microsoft Works", it just don't make any sense.

IE I have only two thing to say: pure crap and anti-trust lawsuit

a) Apple's hardware is not expensive, the machine itself is. You don't buy parts but a package, like a car (I'm not starting a debate on that... see other thread for my explanation)

b) code for a smaller group? That makes -no- but --no-- sense at all. You seriously think that coding every damn application/kernel/driver(in the past)/GUI/etc would be easier because they don't have a 'lot' of computers? PURE non-sense. You seriously got to get a clue from the nearest programmer to you man

c)MS on so much hardware? *facepalm* -This- is a lot of hardware Hardware Supported by NetBSD, not Windows or any crap they attempted at supporting. Just install XP or about any OS they did and see what they support out of the box (I smell yellow exclamation mark from here ).
And if I can push a bit more, they are one of the reason we are about 5-10 years behind in 'computers'. Heck we still have a (*@#&$ 8 BIT CHIP IN OUR COMPUTER IN 2010 (the bios). WTF! And x86-64 makers still have to support 32 and 16 bits instruction, which should have died in the 90s and the mid 80s respectively. low level programmers still have to cope with a zillion of opcodes and it's a real bitch to work with considering we have awesome complex architecture like sparc64 with simple instructions.

d) unix not ready for prime time? dude I think you underestimate the number of *nix server running the "internet" and even the number of desktops running any version of it.

e) I understood half of what you said for GUI, but what is the goal of a GUI? Simplicity. Who wins in that category? Simple: Aqua. You may think it's too fisher price or I don't know, but that just means you never tried it for more than a few seconds or had somebody who didn't know much about it like you who showed you around. As I always say... Aqua power user > windows power user. You can do so much more quickly with Aqua than you can with windows and for some obvious reasons (multiple desktops for example) and some technical reason (window pane's threads handling for an example).
And seriously you can't compare under the hood for both. Windows is a real damn cluster**** of bad code freezing and leaving you hopeless to debug while on the other hand if you ask any programmer to describe what is going on under aqua, they will cry of joy explaning to you why it's -so- much better than windows (as in windows the gui).
And if you are takling about under the hood as in the kernel, I have only -one- lil thing to say about it: BSD vs, eh, windows. 'nuff said.


To conclude dare to take OSX out of his "narrow" window and be surprised my friend. You can do absolutely anything with this lil piece of marvel... again ask any programmer who had the chance to work on OSX (kernel programmer if you can) and let them tell you exactly why OSX > Windows.

[SneakySnake]

Originally Posted by H2O

type "regedit" in the search program and files of the start menu, that's only 1 exemple

Ah i see what you mean now, OS X has that via the GUI. It's called the library folder. You go to the "Macintosh HD' or whatever u called ur HDD, and then library. There's also the system folder as well where you can do all that stuff under the hood