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Old February 22, 2012, 04:57 PM
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I just finished reading through the CC thread at [H].... now I remember why I stopped going there completely. What a bunch of bi@tches
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Old February 22, 2012, 05:14 PM
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Just reinforces how difficult it is going to be to come up with some sort of rule set that will be acceptable to the greatest number of people.
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Old February 22, 2012, 05:38 PM
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I read a CC thread over at [H] forums and it appears that they think that HWC cheated last year so they don't want to compete this year. It didn't say how they think HWC cheated, can someone explain? It's just friendly competition so I don't understand what the big deal is.
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Old February 22, 2012, 05:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathus View Post
I read a CC thread over at [H] forums and it appears that they think that HWC cheated last year so they don't want to compete this year. It didn't say how they think HWC cheated, can someone explain? It's just friendly competition so I don't understand what the big deal is.
The cheating thing refers HWC recruiting/teaming up with Ncix for the CC. Since the points calculations were based on past output for only HWC some people believed this was actually a strategy devised to circumvent the rules & take advantage of how the contest was structured.

What I read though was the main reason they don't want to be involved is that past challenges caused too much infighting in their own team. Members were pissed when people who weren't in the CC passed them in the standings, and there was a lot of bitching and name calling. In short, they did it to themselves...
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Old February 22, 2012, 05:48 PM
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Hardocp is not participating because they disagree with how Evga has its reward bucks program. They were out of the CC long before HWC even joined.

Evga thinks we cheated because 5-6 big folders from NCIX joined our team last year which bumped our numbers up. Problem with that theory is that I told the other teams in the captains forum we will have some (but unknown) number folders from NCIX join us, and also that there were guys from Hardocp and other folding teams join other teams too but that was no issue apparently.
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Old February 23, 2012, 06:15 AM
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Ah this makes more sense. Thanks for the info Chrisk!
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Old February 26, 2012, 07:23 AM
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We are probably sticking with the same format as last year. We don't have much time to revamp everything right now.
,
The focus is on how we will calculate stats (ie. "Chimp Points", etc).
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  #68 (permalink)  
Old February 27, 2012, 11:36 AM
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Spent some time reading the [H] thread... oh man...
- Basically, their community fell apart as they appear to have self destructed. the CC was simply the enabler in the whole thing. I suspect [H] fears that would happen again since they're a top team and wish to stay that way without internal politics picking away their ranks.
- That being said, there are plenty of inter-team accusations running around about cheating too etc...

But the underlying issue is that so many people feel entitled to complaining about others when there is no true way to enforce the rules.

Which leads into the following strongly suggested guidelines:
1. Each rule must be easily detectable and enforceable (black and white proof)
2. The rules must never change once the competition has started


While this can cause issues with the Folding Best Practices
Folding@home - FAQ-BestPractices
There are some best practices that are just completely unenforceable. There is no way to prevent or detect anyone who ditches a "low PPD" WU.

This leads into my next suggestion - it needs to be clear what is enforceable:
1. There should be a set of enforceable rules with clearly defined punishments if required
2. There should be a set of non-enforceable good will guidelines


Point #2 would then have a large disclaimer indicating that there are no contest level enforcement for any of these guidelines, and that there will be no tolerance from team captains for any inter-team accusations on these points. Team Captains are welcome to talk to their teams internally to manage these guidelines.
Example of a guideline: Priming is frowned upon and goes against Best Practice #6. A Randomized start time helps mitigate this issue.
Example of a rule: Members found complaining to another team about a guideline as opposed to a rule will have chat and forum priviledges revoked ASAP.

In the end, something tells me the CC should be officially retired since it was not well defined to begin with and has a rather big stigma associated with it.

I suggest a new Phoenix Challenge be setup in it's place:
1. A manifesto describing the measurable goals of the challenge
2. A reward for each individual goal (I've heard some good suggestions: Points, WUs, new members, Logarithmic Year over Year points growth between challenges, Spirit) and how each goal will be judged
3. A static time period for the contest each year (ex: 2 weeks?)

Things like the Points and WU sub-challenges would use a single account name on a team.
Things like the new members and Logarithmic Year over Year would use overall team statistics.
Spirit could be a simple vote from team captains at the end of the competition (can't vote for self plus plus tie breaker stuff) where team captains poll their own members asking who had the best spirit throughout the competition...

Something tells me if I get the time, I should just start my own challenge...
  #69 (permalink)  
Old February 27, 2012, 01:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DougTheSlug View Post
Spent some time reading the [H] thread... oh man...
- Basically, their community fell apart as they appear to have self destructed. the CC was simply the enabler in the whole thing. I suspect [H] fears that would happen again since they're a top team and wish to stay that way without internal politics picking away their ranks.
- That being said, there are plenty of inter-team accusations running around about cheating too etc...

But the underlying issue is that so many people feel entitled to complaining about others when there is no true way to enforce the rules.

Which leads into the following strongly suggested guidelines:
1. Each rule must be easily detectable and enforceable (black and white proof)
2. The rules must never change once the competition has started


While this can cause issues with the Folding Best Practices
Folding@home - FAQ-BestPractices
There are some best practices that are just completely unenforceable. There is no way to prevent or detect anyone who ditches a "low PPD" WU.

This leads into my next suggestion - it needs to be clear what is enforceable:
1. There should be a set of enforceable rules with clearly defined punishments if required
2. There should be a set of non-enforceable good will guidelines


Point #2 would then have a large disclaimer indicating that there are no contest level enforcement for any of these guidelines, and that there will be no tolerance from team captains for any inter-team accusations on these points. Team Captains are welcome to talk to their teams internally to manage these guidelines.
Example of a guideline: Priming is frowned upon and goes against Best Practice #6. A Randomized start time helps mitigate this issue.
Example of a rule: Members found complaining to another team about a guideline as opposed to a rule will have chat and forum priviledges revoked ASAP.

In the end, something tells me the CC should be officially retired since it was not well defined to begin with and has a rather big stigma associated with it.

I suggest a new Phoenix Challenge be setup in it's place:
1. A manifesto describing the measurable goals of the challenge
2. A reward for each individual goal (I've heard some good suggestions: Points, WUs, new members, Logarithmic Year over Year points growth between challenges, Spirit) and how each goal will be judged
3. A static time period for the contest each year (ex: 2 weeks?)

Things like the Points and WU sub-challenges would use a single account name on a team.
Things like the new members and Logarithmic Year over Year would use overall team statistics.
Spirit could be a simple vote from team captains at the end of the competition (can't vote for self plus plus tie breaker stuff) where team captains poll their own members asking who had the best spirit throughout the competition...

Something tells me if I get the time, I should just start my own challenge...
You have got some good stuff going there dougie, keep it up!

I like the general direction you are heading.............
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Old February 27, 2012, 05:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stoanee View Post
I like the general direction you are heading.............
Just from what I have seen over the past year or so I think DougTheSlug has the spot on idea needed but its going to require a large amount of co-operation.

Now whether or not this could be enacted by this years CC... I could not say, after these experiences it might just be time to start evolving the challenge.
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