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  #211 (permalink)  
Old April 24, 2012, 08:10 AM
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I can answer that. And apologies to HWC for bringing this argument here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adak View Post
Zodac, you ARE the "bad guy" here. I would estimate the odds of OCN winning are now at 80%. You keep saying "we don't know until we try", which is absolutely nonsense.

We have spreadsheets - we make projections - quickly and easily. And guess who wins those projections? < hint OCN hint > I've stated this repeatedly, and repeatedly the CC captains ignore it.
You know why OCN wins? Because with the factors included, OCN did best overall. Now, how is that me being unfair? We've chosen factors which - altogether - do not favour one size of team over others.

Considering that OCN did well last year (with a system that was biased towards smaller teams), wouldn't it make sense that a system that brought that system into balance a bit would give OCN some better performance, and the teams above a bit less, no?

And one other thing - and please answer this one:
If it favours bigger teams, why does OCN win, and not Evga? Doesn't that imply that it's actually not based on size?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adak View Post

I appreciate your work and your zeal Zodac, but your enthusiasm isn't being moderated by someone who is looking after the future of the CC. You have a 20 to 1 post ratio over any other CC team captain, across multiple forums, AND you are the mod of the CC forum. No one can even get into the CC forum, without your approval.

And you don't think that's an undue and pervasive influence?

That's not my fault - that forum was agreed upon by the captains before I took over the role. The idea was that a different team would host the negotiations every year. No-one did though - was I just meant to stop using the forum? As it is, the forum is owned by the previous OCN captain... obviously he'd feel more comfortable giving me admin powers than someone else.

As for the post count - I want a CC as much as anyone else. How else am I meant to do that but my bumping the threads?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adak View Post
The way the CC decisions are made is ungawdly slow and really silly. We have CC captains who have never even raced in the CC before - never heard of it until this month. Other captains just don't show up, or lack an opinion - on almost any topic of the CC. "Whatever's" rain down from them, like leaves in the fall.

You're a natural leader Zodac, but you are leading the CC in the wrong direction. Yes, it favors OCN that you do this, and I'm sure that OCN would be quite pissed if you didn't - but it's still the wrong direction for the CC.

You think I'm leading the CC in the wrong direction. But again, I'll point out two things:

1) The CC names issue (the topic we have the most conflict over) was voted over by the teams. I didn't threaten to pull my team out of the CC if they weren't used - it was put to the captains to vote.

2) In the CC forum, go back and take a look how long ago I was asking for opinions for teams for how we should do this year's event - it was some time back in January. Excuse me for trying to push things on because other no-one else wanted something in particular.

As for your systems, you have said yourself that it favours smaller teams - that if all teams worked to their potential, the smaller teams would always win. How is that fairer, especially considering the only reason we're coming up with a new formula this year is because last year was unfair.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adak View Post
The smaller teams haven't caught onto how the CC will be changed yet. When they do, they won't be quite so cordial to you.
You make it seem as though I designed the system... as though I've gone around to the teams to promote it. Each team has had a say, and had the time to come up with their own system. I might not have agreed with your proposals, but I wasn't the only one who felt that way.

Finally:


  #212 (permalink)  
Old April 24, 2012, 08:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adak View Post
Zodac, you ARE the "bad guy" here. I would estimate the odds of OCN winning are now at 80%. You keep saying "we don't know until we try", which is absolutely nonsense.

We have spreadsheets - we make projections - quickly and easily. And guess who wins those projections? < hint OCN hint > I've stated this repeatedly, and repeatedly the CC captains ignore it.

I appreciate your work and your zeal Zodac, but your enthusiasm isn't being moderated by someone who is looking after the future of the CC. You have a 20 to 1 post ratio over any other CC team captain, across multiple forums, AND you are the mod of the CC forum. No one can even get into the CC forum, without your approval.

And you don't think that's an undue and pervasive influence?

The way the CC decisions are made is ungawdly slow and really silly. We have CC captains who have never even raced in the CC before - never heard of it until this month. Other captains just don't show up, or lack an opinion - on almost any topic of the CC. "Whatever's" rain down from them, like leaves in the fall.

You're a natural leader Zodac, but you are leading the CC in the wrong direction. Yes, it favors OCN that you do this, and I'm sure that OCN would be quite pissed if you didn't - but it's still the wrong direction for the CC.

The smaller teams haven't caught onto how the CC will be changed yet. When they do, they won't be quite so cordial to you.

^^This is mud slinging and should have been done via PM......

I do not really give a crap about rules anymore, I just want a contest! We (the folding community) are all winners and dialog like above does NOTHING to advance the cause. Some team will win and some team will lose, it is the PARTICIPATION that matters. (for crying out loud, the prize is a picture of a monkey!)
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Last edited by stoanee; April 24, 2012 at 08:34 AM.
  #213 (permalink)  
Old April 24, 2012, 12:26 PM
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Hey HWC, I am the captain from over at EVGA, I needed to ask a couple quick questions. I know you guys ran the website for CC 2011, is it correct that you will not be doing so again? And if that is correct, I was wondering instead of creating a whole new website would I be able use the one you already have created? I just need to know how to do the points updates? IF this is not a possibility I would still ask how you guys did the charts, so I can do it as well.
  #214 (permalink)  
Old April 24, 2012, 03:26 PM
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@Stoanee, Race is going to start on the 15th if everything goes to plan. Can't make it arrive any sooner.

Unfortunately, Zodac is smart, very energetic with FAH, and the race committee this year has a mix of "no time for it", never raced before, or "whatever" captains. And there is no race director. If you believe Zodac doesn't have too much influence on the CC, you just haven't been around the various CC sites this year.

Watch how the race goes. I'll know it's just your basic good nature if you're not a wee bit pissed.
  #215 (permalink)  
Old April 24, 2012, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devdog51 View Post
Hey HWC, I am the captain from over at EVGA, I needed to ask a couple quick questions. I know you guys ran the website for CC 2011, is it correct that you will not be doing so again? And if that is correct, I was wondering instead of creating a whole new website would I be able use the one you already have created? I just need to know how to do the points updates? IF this is not a possibility I would still ask how you guys did the charts, so I can do it as well.
The admins here at HWC needed something concrete on the format of the CC and points scheme before seeing what they could do. I'll ask the captains if I can forward the proposed formula to the site admins. Last thing I want os for someone to take their time, come up with a stats page, then have it changed. From what I understand, the folks who did last year may not be available.

As far as the site hosting is concerned, it was hosted here at HWC so I don't know what they can do about granting access. I suspect it won't be possible.

I'll respond further in the CC captain's thread.
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  #216 (permalink)  
Old April 24, 2012, 04:34 PM
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I think it's fantastic we are having heated discussions here.

That's what we wanted 6 months ago.



------

S'all good , this is very definitely a work in progress..Let's not forget that.

Cheers !

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  #217 (permalink)  
Old April 24, 2012, 08:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrainEater View Post

------

S'all good , this is very definitely a work in progress..Let's not forget that.

Cheers !

I agree, we have to keep the competition going in order to tweak it. I think it is important we do not scare everyone away with too much infighting. If HWC can beat last years output I consider that to be a win.
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  #218 (permalink)  
Old April 24, 2012, 09:12 PM
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Thanks. Technically all we're waiting for is the captains to vote, really. There's been a slight change based on a sugesstion by my guys but other than that, its just come down to the decision
  #219 (permalink)  
Old April 24, 2012, 09:35 PM
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@Devdog:

1) I have worked out a way to get the hourly stats and calculate team data, automatically. I'm smoothing it out, but it's in C, so smooth is relative. I would use it for a backup plan, only.

2) A teammate has offered his half made web site that is designed to handle dc contests (but unfinished). Unfortunately, he doesn't have the time to work on it right now.

He says with some updating it could be used. Just needs the graphs, etc. He used Drupal and PHP to build what is there. Let me know if you're interested.

How's your eye doing?
  #220 (permalink)  
Old April 26, 2012, 10:37 AM
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Its doing much better, thanks. Umm... Im not horribly good with PHP. Zodac has some google docs worked up that will work. Its nothing fancy but, they'll get the job done. ChrisK, we have a final formula now, would youre guy be able to update your website? I would really like to use it again.
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