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  #161 (permalink)  
Old April 13, 2012, 12:21 AM
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There is a good deal of resistance to the above format, from teams that were unhappy with the 2011 CC, and this format is too close to the old format.



Anyway, here's another format I'm proposing. I call it "Boost". It's a handicap format. A handicapper determines what the highest points should be for the end of the race, and does some math.

Each team starts out with a different value - like a staggered start on a track meet, where the outside guy has to be adjusted because he's running on the longer part of the track oval.

Anyway. Every team starts with a value, determined still by their performance in the last CC. The fastest folding team will start with zero points. The goal is that the Boost to each team will get them to the finish line, all at the same time - if they all fold at (say for this example), twice the speed they folded at, last year.

A *beautiful* example of it is posted here, showing a projected CC race for 10 days, from start to finish:

Overclockers Forums - View Single Post - Chimp Challenge 2012

It's an exciting format - the smaller teams start out so far in front, you'd think they'd never get caught by the bigger teams, but then the big teams come roaring down the back stretch in the last few days, and really make it exciting.

Please look it over, and as always, discuss.

Note that since we're going (or trying to go), with whole team racing, instead of individuals joining a sub team for the race, we'll need to use the April month for data to determine the Boost. These kinds of races will vary in length. With a good pick of the top point value, it will be close to 10 days - but it could be shorter or longer, of course. (shortest probably would be 5 days, longest would be 15 days).

All the data in that spreadsheet, is just an example, not an actual selection for the Boost and top point value.
  #162 (permalink)  
Old April 13, 2012, 05:20 AM
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Seeing as how time is getting short and if we cannot agree on a points format, I suggest we do an all out points race. Hopefully everyone would participate and the results would clearly show who the top dog(s) are. With those numbers in place we could start the discussion for 2013 handicapping. (if any)

I really want this race to go!
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  #163 (permalink)  
Old April 13, 2012, 07:27 AM
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It will, please be patient. :)

Several teams won't bother racing in a straight points race, Stoanee.

Since this is based on a points race, even though it has a handicap feature, it eliminates the need for two race brackets.
  #164 (permalink)  
Old April 13, 2012, 02:16 PM
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You will have a new EVGA spokesperson HWC - at least for a numbers of days

Family emergency got in the way for me - my 92yr dad went into the hospital today I have a 90yr mom to take care of and things to do

I personally would have excepted a number of formats - I just wanna fold (Points to me I don't care about..others do)
but My team has the say on what formats/formula to take

do what you can to salvage the contest. everyone may not get what they want - that's compromise
lets just end the bickering and fold for people and medicine to save lives...maybe give stanford headaches from the meltdown we cause to their servers
  #165 (permalink)  
Old April 13, 2012, 02:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xavier Zepherious View Post
You will have a new EVGA spokesperson HWC - at least for a numbers of days

Family emergency got in the way for me - my 92yr dad went into the hospital today I have a 90yr mom to take care of and things to do

I personally would have excepted a number of formats - I just wanna fold (Points to me I don't care about..others do)
but My team has the say on what formats/formula to take

do what you can to salvage the contest. everyone may not get what they want - that's compromise
lets just end the bickering and fold for people and medicine to save lives...maybe give stanford headaches from the meltdown we cause to their servers
Best wishes to your father, hope it turns out ok.


I agree with the last part of your post, lets do this!
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  #166 (permalink)  
Old April 13, 2012, 03:04 PM
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Do we have a tentative start date yet for the CC?
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  #167 (permalink)  
Old April 13, 2012, 03:53 PM
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May 5th is the target.
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  #168 (permalink)  
Old April 13, 2012, 10:05 PM
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This is my latest post over on OCN. The "whole team" versus "individual sign up" team format, is a sticking point. As mentioned below, I'm going with better handicapping, and the "whole team" format for the CC. I'm not arguing the matter with Zodac at OCN, anymore. It's an old carry over from the days when the CC was held between sub-teams, and they had to have a way to ID the sub-teams points from the larger teams points.

The idea was then held over as a kind of "loyalty" and "elite" test and status, when the whole teams started racing in the CC. I'm not asking my teammates to waste their time and energy, changing their passkey and folding name, only to change it back in 10 days.

I used to support the "individual team" format, but I solidly disagree with it now. It's days are over, and the future of the team races, are in the whole team format.

People have been handicapping races for a very long time, and we can handicap a whole team race!

Quote:
Regarding the whole team format:

I'm committed to it, now. I wasn't last month, but the more I thought about it, the more sure I am that the whole team format, is the format for now, and the future of folding team races.

I am NOT asking people to spend their time setting their folding rigs, changing their name and passkey for 10 day. Then go back and doing it again. That's a waste of time and money.

Any problems that arise, we can correct with proper handicapping - yes it will take some adjustments, but it's not rocket science. People have been handicapping races since before the Pyramids at Giza, were built -- we can do this!

OK, let's talk about the (factors), in the handicap:

1) Points from the last CC will form the basis for these calculations. That levels out the competition from year to year, while encouraging the teams to continue upping their production and/or membership.

2) Adjustment for whole team format:

Here's the approximate percent of a few teams that participated in the 2011 participation:

EVGA - 65%
HWC - 85%
OCF - 67%
OCN - 80%

So teams points should be adjusted upward (100% +) by:

EVGA - 35%
HWC - 15%
OCF - 33%
OCN - 20%

Which gives us the whole team figure for 2011 CC points. Similar calculations would be made for each competing team.

I did not think it would be necessary, but now it appears it is - we need a rule that no team can run a promotion, during the race. There's too much difference between EVGA and say, OCAU, to permit promotions/contests of any kind, during that period - due them either before or after the race. It's only 10 days so it should be no problem.

Whole teams can not merge - only individuals can join with a racing team. That means they can join in, but they have to change their team number in the folding client. Requests to add team 33 (for example), to your team, will not be granted.

Unless somebody convinces me another approach is better, we'll use the Factor or Conversion format - all teams will start at zero points on the first day. The Boost format did not seem to appeal any more than the other format, and would be somewhat "odd" to those who are used to the Factor approach.

HPCS points will not be treated any differently than any other points. If you have them- great! If your team doesn't have them - sorry about that! If the HPCS service stops - it just stops. We don't take any action one way or the other, about it.

A teams increase in membership or production from one year to the next, will not be a factor in the race. Your handicap is calculated based ONLY upon your performance in the CC, last year. New teams joining in will be handicapped based on their last six months of folding numbers. If those numbers have been skewed (say by a guest team folding with you), then we'll use the average of the months not so affected.

Please comment, but the "whole team" format versus the "individual team" format, is not something I will discuss further. That matter is closed.
Let me know what you think, or if my numbers are off. I'm making up a spreadsheet based on these idea's.

The Boost format didn't fly any better than the factor or conversion format that was used last year, so I'm going back to the earlier format, where each team starts with zero points, not a large Boost handicap point value.

Last edited by Adak; April 13, 2012 at 10:11 PM.
  #169 (permalink)  
Old April 14, 2012, 05:26 PM
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Zodac (OCN Captain), and I have a big difference of opinion on the goal of the point scheme for the CC.

Her expressed goal is to reward the bigger teams IN THE HANDICAP portion of the race, for their larger contribution to FAH.

I keep mentioning that in a handicap race, you ideally want every 100% effort racer, to arrive at the finish, in a dead heat (completely even). So only their effort is the deciding factor in the race result.

More details, and her quote on it, at OCN, or part of it is here.
Overclockers Forums - View Single Post - Chimp Challenge 2012

Her skewed point scheme (and of course she insists we should use her formula), is completely unacceptable to me, and I hope to you.

She ran the 2011 data through a spreadsheet with her formula -- big surprise -- OCN WON!

Reminds me of the classic Animal Farm book ("book" - you know, that funny square thing with skinny square pages), where after the animals take over from the humans, all the barnyard animals are EQUAL, but the pigs - they're MORE EQUAL.
  #170 (permalink)  
Old April 15, 2012, 10:28 AM
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I've posted the essential parts of the handicap spreadsheet and explained it, over on the CC forum (stats section). The gist of it is, that if the data for participation by the teams is correct, and all the teams raced exactly like they did in 2011, every team would finish with 1,000 chimp points, and in a tie for first place.

That won't happen, of course, but that's the goal handicapping strives for.

Charlie, if you and your CC co-horts could look it over, it would be good.
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