Chimp Challenge 2012 rules discussion thread

[Xavier Zepherious]

if your team agrees Im for it....

but EVGA needs an answer this week or we are out...we have a deadline

OCN (zodac) setup a deadline 2 weeks ago in the CC forums that came and went - and no agreement let alone anyone replying then

discuss something or it's gonna die

it looks like MPC is out ...folding for Gordon tribute (thats what Adak at OCF said)

[G777]

Just throwing this out there; perhaps the team captains should consider giving this year a pass. If the competition is hastily thrown together with fewer teams, it may sour this years participants to the extent that next year no one is interested.

Instead start early with a fair and equitable points system as possible, and get all the teams behind it early on.

Just a thought...

[Adak]

There isn't much to "throw" together. Web site points will need some work, but that won't take long. For a real race, you're quite right - it's too late and time's too short. For a virtual race on line however, it's quite doable. Most everything can be re-used.

I like the idea of a "side" race. Lends a good deal of scope to the massive output of the CC teams, during the race, and should help increase buzz for FAH a bit.

(This doesn't mean there will be two races. It just means every team in the Handicap bracket, will also be entered in the Unlimited bracket, and vice-versa.)

That's one way to do it, anyway.

Some members of the teams have been promoting this race as the highlight of the folding year, for several months. If there is no CC this year, it's a major disappointment to me, and to the teammates all over FAH, who have looked forward to it.

ATM, I'm quite disappointed in the captains CC performance. With the exception of Xavier, it seems like the CC captains pretty much disappeared into the ether.

[MARSTG]

Originally Posted by stoanee

....let's do this!!!!!!!! (The snow is melting!)

there is none left in Montreal on the streets, maybe only in the snow dumping sites.

[Xavier Zepherious]

look its' beyond me why all the crunching teams can have PPD races - and NO ISSUES

that includes [H],EVGA, and OCN and others and have no issues being in these contests and it's all out PPD
heck EVGA wasn't anywhere near the TOP did we complain... we work with the system and live with it

but we come to folding which is just another DC project and we can't get it together?
can't agree to a simple thing, let alone discuss it openly and let our own members have a say in it...come on

Id rather go back to the old system or put it in the hands of a neutral party like stanford to work out the format/formula
than bicker about it

[Adak]

Originally Posted by Xavier Zepherious

look its' beyond me why all the crunching teams can have PPD races - and NO ISSUES

that includes [H],EVGA, and OCN and others and have no issues being in these contests and it's all out PPD
heck EVGA wasn't anywhere near the TOP did we complain... we work with the system and live with it

but we come to folding which is just another DC project and we can't get it together?
can't agree to a simple thing, let alone discuss it openly and let our own members have a say in it...come on

Id rather go back to the old system or put it in the hands of a neutral party like stanford to work out the format/formula
than bicker about it

The crunching races I've been in, were "Gauntlets", and they're pretty tame-o, (rhymes with lame-o). It's nothing like the CC, where people have to actually donate their ppd, to the race name for their team. In the crunching "races", you wouldn't know if you were even in one, personally. You give your name to the team captain, and that's it. It's this 50 against that team's 50, and oh yeah, this team had 125 so we split them up (you don't mind do ya, racing for another team?), and of course, the teams aren't still balanced, but ...

Let me yawn here a bit.

Stanford shouldn't work out the details, because Stanford has had nothing to do with the CC, since the very beginning - ok, one thing - they give us special passkeys for the race teams, in the last few years. But that's it as far as anything to do with the CC.

It's OK to let the team members have a say in it, but here's the problem - they'll come up with 100 different ways to run the race, and feel slighted if their way isn't studied carefully and adopted. Problem is, we don't EVER have the time to do that - even if we had the desire to remake the race - which we only want to change a bit, not totally redo.

Xavier, Braineater, myself, and a few other experienced CC'ers with a mind for a fair and fun race, could put this thing together in a weekend - minus the website changes that would be needed. You just need to keep it simple, and know what you want. In 2012, the change would be the two brackets, with the teams entered into both of them, for dramatic effect.

The bickering comes down to the "fair" part, and here's the truth of FAIR: Very few things in life, are truly fair. You and I will never be a world class sprinter because every world class sprinter in the last 60 years has had a longer leg length, than we do. That gives them a physiologic advantage that we don't have. Not to mention their greater supply of fast-twitch muscle fiber.

Now some folders, would show up at the track on the day of the race, and want the race officials to saw 3 inches off from Usain Bolts legs, to make the race more fair. And that's more fair, no doubt, but that's not the kind of race we want! Not in the Olympics, and not in the CC. We'd wind up watching a bunch of sawed off dwarf's, trying to run down the track.

So any rules about what EVGA can do with contests during the race, etc., should be removed. I want EVGA to have their biggest contests ever during the CC, and draw in 10,000 new folders - all because of the CC, and their desire to win it!

And I hope other teams will then start to have their own contests during the CC, and draw in another 10,000 folders -- Yeah!

And I believe that's one problem with the CC this year. We've got people wanting too much, the captains know they can't give them what they want, and so they procrastinate and basically disappear into the ether, not wanting to deal with it anymore.

We need to reverse that, and freely admit that it's a race, and a fair CC race is not going to be perfectly fair - nor do we want it to be.

[texinga]

Lot's of great points there Adak...seems like the answer may just be "those CC Captains that are willing to participate should just go ahead and make some decisions". I agree that CC gets too bogged down in "points analysis paralysis" and it is the ugly side of what is otherwise a beautiful race.

To Xavier's point about Crunching races, he has it correct, at least from the Crunching races where I participated in the last 12 months. We run full out as a Crunching Team and the Team numbers (members) are very widely dispersed. In the 2011 Christmas Challenge, we had a huge ratio of members between Teams and EVGA placed very well in spite of our small numbers. My point is that Xavier is correct, in Crunching, points design do not take center stage and your Team has to compete with what it brings to the table pure and simple. I think that is sort of what you are trying to do too...get CC back to being a simpler contest that is still fun!

This year's CC is floundering upon indecision and poor participation from CC Team Captains. I believe, however, that most Team members are very interested in getting things going and are ready to race. Some are also in sort of a limbo state wondering if CC will happen this year. We need to get the recruiting effort well underway, and having some experience with that, we are getting "long in the tooth" on getting that started. So my advice would be, do whatever is necessary to get this thing nailed down this week so that we can get started recruiting and informing people. If that means moving ahead with some decisions then so be it. If anyone that is not participating in those decisions want to complain afterward, they can only look to their own lack of participation in same.

Originally Posted by Adak

The crunching races I've been in, were "Gauntlets", and they're pretty tame-o, (rhymes with lame-o). It's nothing like the CC, where people have to actually donate their ppd, to the race name for their team. In the crunching "races", you wouldn't know if you were even in one, personally. You give your name to the team captain, and that's it. It's this 50 against that team's 50, and oh yeah, this team had 125 so we split them up (you don't mind do ya, racing for another team?), and of course, the teams aren't still balanced, but ...

[Adak]

It has been suggested that we take the whole team's points, and add them into the CC. That stops asking everyone to change their folding name and passkey.

Would that be OK for the CC?

[Xavier Zepherious]

That would make things easier - then no messages to get people moved over...no priming keys or sending Passkeys...and just team stats

However then all our folders that normally wouldn't switch over come to bear
(from other teams folding till they get 350K to just getting EVGA bucks and those that don't enter any contest from EVGA)
then the full power of EVGA comes to bear - I find that even more formidable... and I suspect even tougher to beat us

That removes another semblance of the old CC contest down the drain - it was mentioned in the CC by EVGA...however that did not go far

think about last year - OCN had 88% conversion - EVGA has 56%
if this stays the same it very well could be OCN winning just on a straight PPD race - because EVGA can't get members out

there is only about 20%-25% difference between our teams at most (full team)...so in the CC the switch over has favored OCN
we can't switch over users visiting EVGA to get bucks...so that is our downfall

I said it be a tough slug going against OCN...
[H] probably would have hammered us with the increase they have....something EVGA could have used in a straight fight to motivate us again

Part of the challenge is to get them switched over ...ours and the others in the race ...that's half the battle
Another part of the challenge is to donate your individual PPD to your chimp name and not fold for yourself

we discussed it internally...we don't mind keeping it... but again if the other teams want it gone...I see no reason other than history to keep it

I think some of the other teams suggested it too in the CC forums

Buy hey...discussions like this is exactly what we need to do between teams

[texinga]

Originally Posted by Adak

It has been suggested that we take the whole team's points, and add them into the CC. That stops asking everyone to change their folding name and passkey.

Would that be OK for the CC?

Personally, I'd jump for joy if that was changed as you suggest. I've seen lots of other people across various forums (including several at EVGA) that would not shed a tear if that whole Fold under another name thing went away. It could even bring in more Folders to the CC effort that have been averse to the switchover and don't Fold for CC because of it. You have my vote...