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  #21 (permalink)  
Old May 6, 2013, 09:35 PM
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Nothing wrong with the first one, you're losing out on resource efficiency so that only hurts you, which is perfect.

Units can patrol and there's units that can move while shooting. Balance needs to be considered though; if everything moves while shooting, you will not have any variety in units.

Lots of things wrong with inexhaustible resources. One of the strategies is to starve out your opponent. And generally balancing a game would be extremely difficult.


Most people look at gaming as relaxing and easy as opposed to challenging, difficult, and balanced. SC2 being the latter makes the majority of people turn away.
1) Its only slightly less resource efficient, not much loss, and only when you dont have a constant stream of income. With SupCom if you didnt have that steady stream of units odds are you'd be walked over fairly quickly.

2)There are countless other variables that can go into making units rather than if they can attack while moving. Movement speed, turning speed, "reload" speed, shields, armor, terrain traversal abilities, range, arc of fire, angle of fire, type of damage (duration or all up front)

3) SupCom did resources well I think, complex yes but good. For the primary income you needed, mass, it was spread out over the map making you venture out instantly and get it rather than just stay at home making an interesting opening. These also had to be constantly fought over and protected, Next, energy, you constantly need more which means you have to keep enlarging your base which makes you more vulnerable. So I'm not sure I understand your reasoning behind the resources. StarCraft's model encourages you to have a network of bases over a main plus lots of small but its also designed to shorten games.

As for StarCraft2 being aimed purely at hardcore gamers, I take offense at that. I like a challenge from my games, I like a feeling of accomplishment. The fact that I play games less than I use to and that I generally play more casually than I use to does not mean that I enjoy "easy" mode games. StarCraft2 is a lesson in frustration for me and that's why I don't play it.

Your attack move win is the exception to the rule not the rule, you generally have to watch every unit and make sure they are doing their job properly. Even field commanders dont have that much control over their soldiers, they can generally think for themselves a little. Its not strategy, hell I dont even think it tactical, its more akin to babysitting than anything else. Why I can't really get into StarCraft2 though is that to be competitive you have to memorize each map and learn how to play in the specific way to even have a chance, if you don't, if you make mistakes there is no recovery. Your plan is in place well before the game starts you have to place your bunkers at points a and b, you have to build 6 marines, etc, there is no flexibility in it. SupCom once you get past the initial phase you have flexibility in how you play

Finally, I have a real issue with games being better to watch than to play, not a big fan of these esports, I'll stick with Soccer and auto racing as my sports entertainment.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old May 6, 2013, 10:45 PM
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That's too contradicting man. You're aiming frustration at the difficulty of a game and then proceed to say you like a challenge.
I get frustrated playing Chivalry because of all the glitching out and bugs.
Hate the game, not the player. As far as I know, Blizzard does an extremely good job with bugs/glitches.

It's clear that you just think SupCom is a superior RTS with a heavy bias, nothing wrong with that. But you're severely misinformed with being what it takes to be competitive in SC2.
I'm curious, what rank did you achieve in SC2 when you played?

I don't go out of my way to memorize maps; most of the maps have a similar layout and it's easy to spot what can be made to your advantage with a quick glance over.
I don't play in a specific way; I've made it to Platinum using just queens as Zerg. Sure, I could use proper attacking units, but I wanted a challenge.
I make plenty of mistakes and recover. You have to adapt and create a comeback plan on-the-fly.
Because I play random, I never have a plan before the game starts because I don't know which race I'll get.

I'm currently Masters in all 4 game types as Random. I work full time and am studying for an exam. So you can't say the reason I'm good is because I play all day and have no life.
I play it 'casually', especially with the playoffs going on and the sunny weather.


You can't get competitive in SC2 because it's too difficult for you. You don't like a challenge.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old May 6, 2013, 10:53 PM
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Originally Posted by YoungMan View Post
That's too contradicting man. You're aiming frustration at the difficulty of a game and then proceed to say you like a challenge.
I get frustrated playing Chivalry because of all the glitching out and bugs.
Hate the game, not the player. As far as I know, Blizzard does an extremely good job with bugs/glitches.

It's clear that you just think SupCom is a superior RTS with a heavy bias, nothing wrong with that. But you're severely misinformed with being what it takes to be competitive in SC2.
I'm curious, what rank did you achieve in SC2 when you played?

I don't go out of my way to memorize maps; most of the maps have a similar layout and it's easy to spot what can be made to your advantage with a quick glance over. Maybe it's just me.
I don't play in a specific way; I've made it to Platinum using just queens as Zerg. Sure, I could use proper attacking units, but I wanted a challenge.
I make plenty of mistakes and recover. You have to adapt and create a comeback plan on-the-fly.
Because I play random, I never have a plan before the game starts because I don't know which race I'll get.

I'm currently Masters in all 4 game types as Random. I work full time and am studying for an exam. So you can't say the reason I'm good is because I play all day and have no life.
I play it 'casually', especially with the playoffs going on and the sunny weather.


You can't get competitive in SC2 because it's too difficult for you. You don't like a challenge.
That is utter bullshit. Its such a crazy generalization that it does not make any sense at all.Just because I do not like the style of play of one game does not mean I do not like a challenge. I play every game out of the box on the highest difficulty that is available. I do not have to justify my play style to you so I'm going to move on now. Lets leave it at I do not like StarCraft's microcosm game craft, it has nothing to do with challenge or lack of.

I am biased towards SupCom as for me personally it is the better experience. And I never accused you of having no life, no idea where that came from. StarCraft2 in my mind is what is wrong with RTS, I've had my say and now I'm going to move onto other pastures. Have a nice day.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old May 6, 2013, 11:53 PM
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Originally Posted by muse108dc View Post
1) Its only slightly less resource efficient, not much loss, and only when you dont have a constant stream of income. With SupCom if you didnt have that steady stream of units odds are you'd be walked over fairly quickly. 2)There are countless other variables that can go into making units rather than if they can attack while moving. Movement speed, turning speed, "reload" speed, shields, armor, terrain traversal abilities, range, arc of fire, angle of fire, type of damage (duration or all up front)
The same could be said for SC2. If you don't constantly produce units you will be walked over fairly quickly.
Again, same can be said for starcraft 2. Movement speed, attack speed, shields, armor, range, type of damange etc.

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Originally Posted by muse108dc View Post
As for StarCraft2 being aimed purely at hardcore gamers, I take offense at that. I like a challenge from my games, I like a feeling of accomplishment. The fact that I play games less than I use to and that I generally play more casually than I use to does not mean that I enjoy "easy" mode games. StarCraft2 is a lesson in frustration for me and that's why I don't play it.
Competitive play is competitive play and in general competition is aimed at the 'more hardcore' bunch of the group. SC2 is extremely challenging to become 'good' at and you definitely feel a sense of accomplishment. I am only diamond ranked which is the top 20%-3% range of players and I am still complete trash in comparison to who is the best and even just good at the game(top 2%). I am beginning to think you have never ventured into online multiplayer mode? Campaign and multiplayer are night and day difference. Not sure what could be frustrating in the game other than constantly losing.

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Originally Posted by muse108dc View Post
Your attack move win is the exception to the rule not the rule, you generally have to watch every unit and make sure they are doing their job properly. Its not strategy, hell I dont even think it tactical, its more akin to babysitting than anything else. Why I can't really get into StarCraft2 though is that to be competitive you have to memorize each map and learn how to play in the specific way to even have a chance, if you don't, if you make mistakes there is no recovery. Your plan is in place well before the game starts you have to place your bunkers at points a and b, you have to build 6 marines, etc, there is no flexibility in it. SupCom once you get past the initial phase you have flexibility in how you play
I'm not sure you understand the definition of strategy. I can't help but think that you have not played online mutliplayer or are just simply bad at the game or cannot keep up with the required APM. The attack move without intensive micro is pretty common. It has been stated that lower league players overemphasize micro and like to watch their battles as if it were a movie when in reality they should be tending to other tasks. Once again you are completely wrong about having a plan in mind. The single most import part of SC2 is scouting. You do what is the proper reaction/counter to what your enemy is doing. If you go into a game with a single plan every game then you are definitely doing it wrong. At that point yes it does become a game of rock paper scissors because you are simply guessing what is the correct thing to do.

You don't have to memorize maps, they are right infront of your face and after playing a few times you should be well familiarized with it.
You don't have to play in any specific way unless you are at the highest level and even so the metagame is constantly evolving.
There is definitely room for recover if you make mistakes...... if you know what you are doing.
The same could be said for SC2. Once you get past the initial phase there is even more room for flexibility. But to do sub optimal strategies will get you nowhere.

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Originally Posted by muse108dc View Post
Finally, I have a real issue with games being better to watch than to play, not a big fan of these esports, I'll stick with Soccer and auto racing as my sports entertainment.
Noone said it's better to watch than to play but as with any competition players/fans enjoy spectating. The fact that it is one of the few games that is actually entertaining to watch says something in itself. In the live streams I watch there are constantly people stopping by saying that they don't play themselves(because the game is too hard) but they still really enjoy watching. You don't have to enjoy watching but competition is what SC2 is all about. Noone said you should watch or have to watch. It's simply a bonus to the wonderful game.

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Originally Posted by YoungMan View Post
That's too contradicting man. You're aiming frustration at the difficulty of a game and then proceed to say you like a challenge.

It's clear that you just think SupCom is a superior RTS with a heavy bias, nothing wrong with that. But you're severely misinformed with being what it takes to be competitive in SC2.
I'm curious, what rank did you achieve in SC2 when you played?
You can't get competitive in SC2 because it's too difficult for you. You don't like a challenge.
I gotta say I completely agree with most of this and it sounds like it's probably true. It would be nice if you answered the league rank question instead of dodging it.

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Originally Posted by muse108dc View Post
That is utter bullshit. Its such a crazy generalization that it does not make any sense at all.Just because I do not like the style of play of one game does not mean I do not like a challenge. I play every game out of the box on the highest difficulty that is available. I do not have to justify my play style to you so I'm going to move on now. Lets leave it at I do not like StarCraft's microcosm game craft, it has nothing to do with challenge or lack of.
The term hardcore gamer is subjective. It can be interpreted in many ways. Some people that play world of warcraft for 16 hours a day are considered hardcore gamers even though it's the most carebear game around. Playing on a difficult setting and failing does not make one hardcore. Are we talking about multiplayer or campaign mode here? They are completely different and the bold statement leads me to believe you have really only played the single player campaign. THe highest difficulty of campaign is like very easy mode compared to multiplayer. While the AI has been updated and revised slightly before the release of hots it is simply not a match for the human brain. It uses set patterns that are easy to manipulate, even when they use cheats.

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Originally Posted by muse108dc View Post
I am biased towards SupCom as for me personally it is the better experience. StarCraft2 in my mind is what is wrong with RTS, I've had my say and now I'm going to move onto other pastures. Have a nice day.
That is fine dude you are allowed to like SupCom and disklike SC2 but most of your statements lead us to believe that you have no clue what you are talking about or just simply don't like it because you are bad at the game. It's okay to dislike a game because you are bad but to make all these bold statements is just ridiculous.

I just gotta wonder how SC2 is what is wrong with RTS games? It's extremely fun to watch, extremely fun to play, requires a ton of practice and research, extremely rewarding improvement, fast paced, has INSANSE skill gaps between bronze-diamond, diamond-master, low master-mid master-high master, high master-low gm, low gm-top gm. It has awesome competitive play with an amazing online community. It has an extremely well built ladder system with a constantly evolving meta game with mutiple leagues and rankings to place you always playing players either slightly worse or better than you. What more could you ask for in a RTS game?

I know this is a stupid point to make but.... the masses speak for themselves. SC2 has evolved esports to what it is and before LoL was the epicenter of esports.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old May 7, 2013, 04:29 AM
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Look I really dont care, feel free to insult me and judge me over this one game. I've stated why I don't like StarCraft2, the phrase APM is up there for sure, I'll stick to my game. I do hope your diamond rating keeps you warm at night.
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Old May 7, 2013, 10:08 AM
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I installed a game called stardrive and I cannot even understand how get started I looked at the tuts and have know clue lol .
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Old May 7, 2013, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by muse108dc View Post
Look I really dont care, feel free to insult me and judge me over this one game. I've stated why I don't like StarCraft2, the phrase APM is up there for sure, I'll stick to my game. I do hope your diamond rating keeps you warm at night.
I'm not insulting or judging. People are bad and good at various things. It's normal and it's ok. Like I said your futile arguments which have no backing to them just lead us to believe one thing. My diamond ranking is considered pretty bad in comparison to who is good. It definitely isn't keeping me warm at night.

Also you still didn't answer any of the questions that were posed to you. It all becoming more and more obvious at this time.
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Old May 7, 2013, 11:38 AM
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The elitists and their attitude as displayed in this thread makes that I don't like games like SC2...
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Old May 7, 2013, 12:02 PM
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The elitists and their attitude as displayed in this thread makes that I don't like games like SC2...
LOL? So because of a couple individuals attitudes towards a game you dislike the game itself? Has nothing to do with gameplay?

Coooooool story bro.
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Old May 7, 2013, 12:11 PM
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...All I know is that I like starcraft for the story. When I get around to playing SCII I plan on clicking easy on the difficulty screen. But then I know I suck at RTS games, and have no real desire to improve.
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