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Old March 3, 2013, 04:12 AM
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Default Valve vs Electronic Arts

I dont know how many of you have read the recent blog post by Cliff Bleszinski of EA on microtransactions and EA vs Valve. If you havent you can find it here Clifford Unchained

I could go into a rant about EA and microtransactions (the latest insult to gaming everwhere Real Racers 3 for eaxmple) but thats not what this is about, this is about only difference between the 2 companies being "They’re just way better at their image control."

I personally find that laughable. EA is the quintessential greedy corporation. Valve, well Valve doesnt even have a management system.

EA buys good talent, Bioware, and squeezes it until its out of juice. Valve is just mellow.

I could go on but thought I should throw in at least one negative for Valve as well, they cant keep to a release schedule on the only game of theirs that I really care about. Half Life.

The difference between Valve and EA is a philosophical one, EA only cares about the dollar, while Valve is the crazy creative aunt that has more money than they know what to do with

PS. Free to play and microtransactions better die quick
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Old March 3, 2013, 05:24 AM
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I've never liked downloadable games myself. I try to buy full retail whenever possible. So I really don't have a vested interest in either Valve or Origin or Live or(insert scheme here).

I blame pirates for giving game companies an (almost) valid excuse to pee on their customers. But in the end it isn't about protecting their rights it's about the almighty buck. Handicapping their games so people feel left out or the need to get all the DLC they can.

What ever happened to games that were complete and darn near bug free right out of the gate? I remember the awesomeness that was Diablo II, Warcraft Tides of Darkness etc. Great SP and better MP. DLC? Ha! Enter IP, have fun.

I vote neither myself. Now I am forced to hit Shift+Tab to rid myself of that box at the bottom? WTF? If I want help I'll ask for it thanks. I could go on but the long answer is none of them are a solution for anything but advertising for them.

Did you notice Valves "Big Picture". I can't stand it. I like the idea of increasing the size so the readability is there but they cut off much of the functionality of the standard view with it. Why not just increase the size of the standard interface? They went all win8/media center/xbox with it. I HATE IT.
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Old March 3, 2013, 05:55 AM
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Honestly the entire pirate excuse for game companies is utter bullshit. Lets be honest about that. Piracy is bad and it happens but part of that is it is easier to pirate some games than deal with some of the crap they try to do DRM wise (Ubisoft I'm looking at you largely here) and the fact that there hasnt been a proper game demo made in years. I read not to long ago that the Witcher2 was one of the most pirated games ever yet CDProjekt is still doing quite well and still has no plans for DRM. DRM costs money to make to.

When I buy games new I try to buy retail still but I love steam for being really, I wouldnt play half the games I do if it wasnt for the downloadable possibility.

And the thing with Valve is much more they havent done anything to piss me off yet and have made a few of my favorite games. Big picture isnt relevant to me so I dont use it, you dont like it? dont use it. Steam has been a god send, saves me a hell of a lot of room for not having to hold on to a poorly made plastic box. While EA has crushed more dev teams dreams than could possibly be listed, insults players on a regular basis with "every game needs a multiplayer component" and "everyone loves microtransaction" comments, not to mention the half finished games and day 1 dlc that they pioneered. There hasnt been any new IP from EA since Mass Effect its all just sequels. The sooner EA dies the sooner real devs can flourish.

But this went off topic somewhat.
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Old March 3, 2013, 06:16 AM
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Originally Posted by muse108dc View Post
When I buy games new I try to buy retail still but I love steam for being really, I wouldnt play half the games I do if it wasnt for the downloadable possibility.
I hear ya. I just don't for the most part.

Quote:
And the thing with Valve is much more they havent done anything to piss me off yet and have made a few of my favorite games. Big picture isnt relevant to me so I dont use it, you dont like it? dont use it.
Yes, but for those that it is relevant for (me) it sucks. Yes, I don't use it. I just wish they would stop catering to the console kiddies. It's a PC app for crying out loud.

Quote:
Steam has been a god send, saves me a hell of a lot of room for not having to hold on to a poorly made plastic box.
Most of my stuff is actually really decent. Though I admit the plastic cases aren't what they used to be.

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The sooner EA dies the sooner real devs can flourish.
I don't see EA's existance as hindering development of proper games ala The Witcher etc. I see the EA business model (cronyisim writ large) as the main culprit.

Quote:
But this went off topic somewhat.
Yeah, sorry about that I tend to get carried away. Valve>EA. What else is new.
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Old March 3, 2013, 07:10 AM
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Originally Posted by IRQ Conflict View Post
I don't see EA's existance as hindering development of proper games ala The Witcher etc. I see the EA business model (cronyisim writ large) as the main culprit.
EA I dont think is hindering game development outside of EA BUT I do feel that the devs EA does own are being hurt. I'm mostly think of Bioware here, DA:O and Mass Effect were good games, but DA2 and Mass Effect3 to a lesser degree were not


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Yeah, sorry about that I tend to get carried away. Valve>EA. What else is new.
Not much, just an EA guy trying to justify himself to the internet. The arrogance just annoyed me somewhat.
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Old March 3, 2013, 07:34 AM
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Personally wish we could see more successful fully independent developers/companies such as CD Projekt Red where they don't even believe in charging for additional content, comes free in patches
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Old March 3, 2013, 08:40 AM
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Personally wish we could see more successful fully independent developers/companies such as CD Projekt Red where they don't even believe in charging for additional content, comes free in patches
Yes that is the ideal, but even they have GOG as well so....

But that is why I'm cheering for kickstarter right now. I mean Star Citizen is the prime example. Publishers crush studios and I do hope we move onto a newer model across the industry. Theres amazing talent out there and it really just need the funding and the freedom.
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Old March 3, 2013, 08:58 AM
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I see the Valve brain washing continues. Don't think for a second that Valve isn't about the bottom line either.

To be honest, I'd say that there are several companies in the EA umbrella that have Valve beat clean on the innovation. EA is also THE largest backer of "indie" games around, routinely dolling out tens of millions every year to foster grassroots game development.

I also want to point out a very important factoid.

Amount Valve spends on post secondary bursaries or support for students in game development programs: $0

Amount EA spends: $9 million per year.

In addition, Valve hasn't innovated in years. Instead they have used a digital distribution platform to keep their customers at arm's length without supporting them with customer service. They contribute very little to the community as a whole while lining Gabe's pockets.

EA on the other hand has leveraged their experience to deliver a content distribution platform which has some teething problems but they back it up 100% with customer support.

Look, I don't like either company. EA has done their part to ruin several franchises but one may argue that those franchises would have died with nary a whimper without EA stepping in. Valve on the other hand I have issues with due to the twisted fanboyism which turns a blind eye to their many issues. Every time I see "If it isn't available on Steam, I won't get it", I gag and then laugh.
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Old March 3, 2013, 09:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muse108dc View Post
Honestly the entire pirate excuse for game companies is utter bullshit. Lets be honest about that. Piracy is bad and it happens but part of that is it is easier to pirate some games than deal with some of the crap they try to do DRM wise (Ubisoft I'm looking at you largely here) and the fact that there hasnt been a proper game demo made in years. I read not to long ago that the Witcher2 was one of the most pirated games ever yet CDProjekt is still doing quite well and still has no plans for DRM. DRM costs money to make to.
The real funny thing about this is that the version that got pirated the most was the Steam version, the one with DRM.

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Originally Posted by muse108dc View Post
And the thing with Valve is much more they havent done anything to piss me off yet and have made a few of my favorite games. Big picture isnt relevant to me so I dont use it, you dont like it? dont use it. Steam has been a god send, saves me a hell of a lot of room for not having to hold on to a poorly made plastic box. While EA has crushed more dev teams dreams than could possibly be listed, insults players on a regular basis with "every game needs a multiplayer component" and "everyone loves microtransaction" comments, not to mention the half finished games and day 1 dlc that they pioneered. There hasnt been any new IP from EA since Mass Effect its all just sequels. The sooner EA dies the sooner real devs can flourish.
Yes I want EA to die as well, but what really sucks is the number of developers that they have sucked up and destroyed over the years and how many people would go down if EA died. I'm pretty sure all of use would agree that both ME3 and DA2 would have been much games if Bioware was actually in control. Oh and Valve has done something to piss me off, not continuing Half-Life. Seriously bring us episode 3.

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Originally Posted by Arinoth View Post
Personally wish we could see more successful fully independent developers/companies such as CD Projekt Red where they don't even believe in charging for additional content, comes free in patches
This^^ We need more companies like them that have publicly said they do not want to be in the same position as all the others that get swept up by EA and the likes. By keeping control they don't have anyone telling them how to make their games besides themselves (and gamers).

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Originally Posted by muse108dc View Post
Yes that is the ideal, but even they have GOG as well so....
While yes there is GOG, it is not really the same as they still let their games be sold elsewhere and it is just a store, not something you have to log into just to play your games. That said I don't know why you would buy it from anyone else if you were going to go the digital route. I mean why pay a middle man when you don't have to.

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Originally Posted by SKYMTL View Post
I see the Valve brain washing continues. Don't think for a second that Valve isn't about the bottom line either.

To be honest, I'd say that there are several companies in the EA umbrella that have Valve beat clean on the innovation. EA is also THE largest backer of "indie" games around, routinely dolling out tens of millions every year to foster grassroots game development.

I also want to point out a very important factoid.

Amount Valve spends on post secondary bursaries or support for students in game development programs: $0

Amount EA spends: $9 million per year.
While I agree that Valve is about the bottom line, like all companies are I still have not seen them absorb and destroy as many good developers as EA. Oh and the reason why EA is the largest backer of "indie" games is because they want to snatch away any decent developers as quick as they can. This way you can get to the good ones before they have really started to make money and entice them with great offers to join. Then before you know it they are with EA and we get the constant DLC, multiplayer, DRM, microtransations, etc.

Neither is good, but Valve has done way more to advance how we go about buying games while EA has done way more to force us into useless multiplayer modes and extra DLC's. Oh and don't forget EA has done something else to really piss me off, they have effectively killed hockey on the PC.

EA = Bad
Valve = Not good, but better than EA.
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Last edited by ipaine; March 3, 2013 at 09:42 AM.
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Old March 3, 2013, 09:45 AM
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Its not that Valve has a better corporate image machine its really just a simple fact that they havent done anything monumentally stupid yet.

Look I neither company is brilliant, CD Projekt Red probably wins that contest, but Steam is where all my games are, and where the massive sales are, and as stated Valve made Half Life while EA keeps reminding us that its a corporation and not remotely human.

Valve hasnt even really published a game recently, not one that really matters to me anyways. It really does come down to it that EA has pissed me off and Valve hasnt. And as jaded as this may come across, the reason EA gives money to those programs is for tax purposes, part of them being a corporation. Valve doesnt do that simply because Gabe hasnt finished his fortress of gold yet. And Valve through Steam has probably had more benefit for Indie games by putting them on the same shelf as the AAA titles. Distribution goes a long way.

I do blame Valve's structure for the fact that we havent seen any more games along the lines of Half Life and that TF2 seems to be their main game right now. They lack direction and are pushing much too much for this steam box of theirs which I really dont care at all about. Steam Box and linux support, I'm not how much more of a niche crowd you could be aiming at, well except maybe mac gamers.

I've been fortunate that I havent had to deal with either companies tech support so I cannot comment first hand. As to Origin, its a combination of EA seeing Steam making lots of money and saying ME TOO and EA seeing the success of Steam and just taking their ball and going home. Steam for all that it is, and this may tie into its flaws with customer service, is run by Valve who is a small developer studio. Valve doesnt have a huge catalog of games, they dont have publishing deals with hundreds of companies, they dont own anyone else's IP. And this is my problem with Origin and why I will not use it. EA is a gigantic publisher who does own a large number of studios and IP, they are inherently biased and thats never a good thing for a store that wants to be your digital content manager to have.
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