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  #61 (permalink)  
Old October 8, 2017, 08:43 PM
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Hey thanks for letting me know about mikescomputershop.com I was able to save $16.85 instead of going with NCIX even with premier partner. Partially for the $5 off simply for signing up with their newsletter.
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Old October 9, 2017, 03:59 AM
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Yeah Mikes is looking good. And the Coffee Lake CPUs are on sale at the moment... whatever that means ;) No stock on the 8700K though. Pre-order sale price I guess, but since we have only had the option to buy them for a few days I don't know that a sale means. What a racket these days...

Also there is an ASUS Z370 board on Mikes for <$200 pre-tax too. Not sure about all the features but that isn't too bad pricing wise. I think my current motherboard was between $200-$300 at the time.

Last edited by Lysrin; October 9, 2017 at 04:08 AM.
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  #63 (permalink)  
Old October 10, 2017, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 486 View Post
MSI 370 PRO-A in a bundle with 8400 from Mike's, comes out at 140, as CPU is 230. Mike's is my new NCIX.
Wow, that sounds good to me. Wish I could buy now. :(

Do you think prices will stay around that or is there something to worry about by next year (Jan.)?

Also, if prices are around there, then the MSI and Gigabyte boards will be the cheapest - I noticed that the board you bought is the cheapest at that store and the next one up is about $10-$15 more - and I noticed that the only difference seems to be Intel LAN vs Realtek for the cheaper board. Is MSI or Gigabyte more reliable for BIOS updates and general reliability (I mean, nowadays with recent tech.)?

I don't know what the caps or power phase info is for those boards but I suppose they are more or less the same....it's just about which make to go with, maybe?
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Old October 10, 2017, 12:21 PM
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Just called memex in Langley and they're expecting a shipment of coffee lake CPUs on Friday or Monday.
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Old October 10, 2017, 12:59 PM
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LAN chip is not an issue for me, Realtek is a narrower bandwidth than Intel, no latency added. I do not overclock much, hence power delivery design does not matter at all. MSI is better than Gigabyte in service, easier to RMA, though quality-wise they on par, IMHO. Asus is better, but too expensive.

I am quite puzzled why people spend money on those $200 MBs. Such a waste of money.
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Old October 11, 2017, 12:38 PM
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Hmmmm, seems like a "meh" paper launch. I'll stick with my Ryzen 1700. No stock on these puppies either, and there doesn't seem to be many out there anywhere right now.

Also, there seems to be a large chasm of variation in the review performance levels and conclusions that makes this all seem quite suspect to me. While I think Z370 looks decent in general, just not interesting enough to move me off Ryzen.

Jayz2centimeters even mentioned that he seems to have been duped by Asus on the Multi-core enhancement. But I guess they fixed the Hyper threading bug, which is nice.
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Old October 11, 2017, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 10e View Post
Jayz2centimeters even mentioned that he seems to have been duped by Asus on the Multi-core enhancement. But I guess they fixed the Hyper threading bug, which is nice.
I would not say duped. I would say that MCE (and variations) have been around for a while and are not very well known or understood by the general computer user population. I can honestly say that I have tried to stay informed on the tech of motherboards, cpus, etc for a lot of years and had not really given much thought or attention to it. MCE is in my BIOS on my Asus P8Z77-V-Pro MB that is 5 years old, and I just left it alone, not really knowing, or caring, what it did. When I went in to overclock my cpu I did it manually and that would have turn that function off.

That said, now that I know what it is, and know a bit more about how it works, I would turn it off myself and just apply a manual overclock where I can control the voltages myself. I can see what Jay was driving at though, if you don't know about it, and your system is running on the crappy stock Intel cooler, what kind of problems could you be getting into? And another good point from his video was that the reviews are uneven due to the reviewers not know about MCE, or knowing about it and not worrying about it, or a combination of both and more. I imagine most reviewers ensure the motherboard bios is set to default to ensure a "stock" experience for the review. But, some reviewers explicitly state that they turn off MCE (or its variants), though Skymtl doesn't say that in his test setup paragraph he does confirm it in this thread when asked about MCE being on or off.

In the end, I would say that most computer users don't fiddle around in the BIOS very often, and don't read the manual to see what it says about the settings. That video Jayz2cents did was great. Also Gamer's Nexus did a video on that as well.

Gamer's Nexus - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0juO5KuwBX4

Jay'sTwoCents - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zi-zU2p2ykc
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  #68 (permalink)  
Old October 11, 2017, 01:32 PM
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Z370 is pretty much Z270 with few pins reassigned for power delivery. Nothing else. 8xxx CPU line is basically +2 cores for the same price. Essentially AMD vs Intel proposition is many slower cores vs few fast cores. Productivity vs gaming.

Ryzen core power efficiency is really great. It seems AMD delivered near perfect server CPU.
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  #69 (permalink)  
Old October 12, 2017, 05:49 AM
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I can say that I turned off MCE in our testing. It always has been ever since ASUS implemented it years ago and it is always the first thing I do before benchmarking.

Unfortunately, I can't say with 100% certainty that MCE was turned off for that run. Why? Bear with me....

I usually boot a fresh system, update BIOS, cross-load apps, run updates and then run a loop of WPrime and a few Cinebench runs to insure stability. In addition, Windows Services are cut down to a bare minimum so they don't interfere with benchmark outputs.

I then reboot, enter BIOS, manually disable any Auto optimizations like Multi Core Enhancement on Intel or the Performance Bias & Core Performance Boost on ASUS' latest AMD boards. I NEVER load optimized defaults and I ALWAYS manually set all BIOS options. This has basically been my process for the last decade of CPU benchmarking and its second nature to me.

What that doesn't change is the high Cinebench run. Could I have mistakenly written a number down from one of those first stability runs? Maybe. Could the number be a simple typo? There's always that possibility when dealing with hundreds of data points and dozens of apps. Could a combination of the points I mentioned above have led to a "hot" Cinebench run? That's a possibility too.

I think the question that's been bugging me is whether or not a Cinebench score would have influenced my opinion about these processors. Absolutely not.

For the time being I can't even retest since the single processor and motherboard we have are now in Eber's hands. I'll definitely need to investigate more when I receive it all back in the lab but what I do know is that before sending I insured -once again- at the end of a new round of testing (more on that later) that MCE was indeed disabled.

So right now I'm leaving all Cinebench results as they are and the review isn't being updated in any way. My conclusion isn't being updated in any way either, nor will it.

Once I get to the bottom of this, there will certainly be either a follow-up article or an annotation made on the original article. For the time being I have added a note to the Cinebench page in addition to clarifying what the all-core speed was (+/- 4.325GHz on this chip as the previous 4.1GHz was a typo on my part).

The last thing I wanted to comment on was the notion that Cinebench can be used as a kind of barometer upon which we can compare one tester's result to another. The very fact we have seen a delta of up to ~25% between different results (1290 to 1550+) on otherwise pretty identical test systems points to there being more to this story than just MCE variance.
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  #70 (permalink)  
Old October 15, 2017, 09:53 PM
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I'm hoping to get ya'lls opinion here on a somewhat unique use case here!

You see, I'm still rocking the Lynnfield (when was the last time you heard that?) era i7 860. This puppy has been serving me for 8 strong years (going on 9) and I've never had a complaint but without question, it is definitely time to upgade. SKYMTL even went so far as to say that Ivy/Sandy Bridgers should upgrade in his review so you can only imagine how I felt reading that line lol.

My unique use case is this, my PC runs 24/7 and its primarily a Plex server. I don't game very much on my PC anymore (life gets in the way) but I do try to play something once in awhile. When there's one or two streams going on at the same time, I can't do much aside from browsing and some light duty taskwork. So basically, gaming is pretty much out of the question when my PC is transcoding but fortunately my PC is still completely usable and does not come to a crawl.

I guess that's one of the reasons why I haven't upgraded yet even though I've been contemplating an upgrade for the last 1-2 years or so. Even though it bothers me sometimes that I can't game when Plex is doing its thing, it clearly hasn't been bad enough yet to force me to upgrade. I guess part of that has to do with my inconsistent gaming schedule.

So all that being said, I think its finally time to make a move... but should I continue to sit tight a little bit longer?

Based on all the numbers it seems like the i7 8700k is a better choice of the R7 1700X. Plex says that 1080p/10Mbps: 2000 PassMark. According to PassMark, the i7 8700k is on top despite having fewer cores. I'm not too sure how the i7 8700k will handle lets say 3 transcodes while I'm trying to play BF1 compared to the R7 1700X which has more cores.

Based on my criteria, should I get the 8700k come Black Friday/Boxing day or since I've held out this long, should I just simply wait for Ryzen 2 (or whatever it will be called) in Q1 2018 to make my choice? I'd love to hear everyone's opinions on this. It would definitely be easier waiting if I was on something that came out in the last 7 years so despite all that, I've been patient enough but don't mind continue waiting a little bit (ideally 6 more months or less) if it warrants it. Based on my current build, you can be sure I'll be keeping my new build for hopefully just as long as I have been right now.
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