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Old February 23, 2015, 07:30 PM
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Default AMD Carrizo APU Preview; Efficiency Forward (Comment Thread)

AMD has been working hard on their mobile Carrizo architecture and they're now releasing some details about these Excavator architecture-equipped next generation APUs.

Read more here: AMD Carrizo APU Preview; Efficiency Forward
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Old February 23, 2015, 08:14 PM
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Any fresh love on the horizon for AM1 or did that never really catch on enough for them to carry it forward?
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Old February 23, 2015, 08:24 PM
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I wish that AMD, with it's focus on APUs and integrated boards, had worked better with their partners to make more impressive mitx setups for home media players, weaker steamboxes and pet projects. That intel had the thin-mitx' boards and AMD has never tried going that route despite having generally better graphics performance with onboard graphics seems like a wasted opportunity on AMD's part.
(Admittedly on somewhat on topic. I'd have loved to get a thin FM2+ board though).
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Old February 24, 2015, 12:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeKnight View Post
I wish that AMD, with it's focus on APUs and integrated boards, had worked better with their partners to make more impressive mitx setups for home media players, weaker steamboxes and pet projects. That intel had the thin-mitx' boards and AMD has never tried going that route despite having generally better graphics performance with onboard graphics seems like a wasted opportunity on AMD's part.
(Admittedly on somewhat on topic. I'd have loved to get a thin FM2+ board though).
As far as my understanding goes, all that depends on the board partners/manufactures. If they see a market for mITX boards with AMD APUs then they'll make them. Took them a while to populate the market with mATX APU boards when FM2+ socket came out, hence I ended up buying an ATX one.
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Old February 24, 2015, 10:44 AM
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For all the improvements in Carrizo, AMD's long term survival depends on Zen and K12. AMD's current APUs are not able to do well because they lose to Intel on CPU performance and cannot provide the performance of a discrete GPU with GDDR5. So they are mediocre in both areas. For AMD to have a serious chance in the notebook market they need a strong CPU architecture and a GPU which is connected to HBM. At 14nm FINFET AMD can easily include a 1024 - 1280 GCN 2.0 sp. AMD needs HBM for enabling its APUs to compete with discrete GPUs. I foresee a 14nm FINFET Zen based APU with High Bandwidth Memory as system memory happening in 2016 or 2017. The question is can AMD bring Zen and HBM before Intel gets to 10nm otherwise it might be too little and too late.
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Old February 24, 2015, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by sswilson View Post
Any fresh love on the horizon for AM1 or did that never really catch on enough for them to carry it forward?
I don't really see much fresh love for the AM1, namely since it looked like stock clearout of Kabini. Seeing as Mullins\Beema is different and more powerful, I wouldn't put much money on it. Hell AM1 was an afterthought and did not go through the normal QA channels. Now I would love to see Mullins\Beema as an AM1+, as it is technically the replacement of Kabini.

Also, will be interesting to see if the rumours I've been hearing about Carrizo is true or not. I do still keep ear to the ground.
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Old February 24, 2015, 11:53 AM
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The GPU's on the APU's are supposed to be mediocre Fragman. Even by mediocre standards they run pretty well considering the price point and considering what I paid for my two APU systems I honestly can't complain. For people playing games like WOW they are the perfect low cost systems laptop or desktop. In the past I would never consider purchasing an AMD lappy... with their solid line up of APU type lappy's I would definitely consider it.
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Old February 24, 2015, 12:00 PM
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I think it is a matter of perception. When Llano was launched, the savior became Trinity. When Trinity bombed and Richland failed to generate interest with system builders, hopes were put on Kaveri. Kaveri, its half-baked HSA infrastructure and the launch of their FX-series mobile processors didn't really help matters either. I believe the real hope for AMD is in the LV and ULV ranges where Mullins and Beema saw quite good success. Progression within mainstream APUs has simply taken too long, to the point where Intel is roughly three generations, if not more, ahead.

One of the main problems is that AMD will only be able to beat the HSA drum for so long before someone calls their bluff. Granted, there are some very hopeful features built into these architectures but even first-generational marketing points like hUMA (launched two years ago) still remain nothing more than interesting on-paper ideas rather than something that's used on a regular basis. AMD's hopes in this area have been talked about for years. What they don't have is a way to effectively leverage those key selfsame functions. HSA and its functionality was hailed as the raison d'etre for APUs but thus far all we have are years-old APUs which still can't use portions of their feature sets.

This runs us towards the whole "what comes first, the chicken or the egg?" scenario but it is abundantly obvious that x86 performance in every architecture after Bulldozer has been sacrificed to achieve HSA goals that have yet to come to even partial fruition. Folks are buying processors for their performance NOW, not what their output COULD BE if AMD and their parters get around to actively utilizing what's built into the architecture.

I personally think that HBM will be a non-starter for AMD on the system memory front. With Intel effectively moving to DDR4 all the way to the Cannonlake generation (ie: 2016 / 2017) and possibly beyond, AMD will be in no position to use it as the main system memory interface since no one will be producing add-in modules for it. Rather, HBM will likely remain an embedded memory solution for graphics cards alone. On the flip side, it is looking increasingly like the Hybrid Memory Cube architecture will be picked up by SoC manufacturers since it is backed by Samsung, ARM and quite a few others. In addition, APUs are certainly not starved for memory performance so HBM won't be a silver bullet in that respect.
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Old February 24, 2015, 02:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SKYMTL View Post
Folks are buying processors for their performance NOW, not what their output COULD BE if AMD and their parters get around to actively utilizing what's built into the architecture
SKY, you put it as simple as possible for everybody and I can only agree with you! Bulldozer architecture was a big flop, it should not have been developed, and I still fail to understand why, after seeing the big flop, AMD should have returned to the design table, and start rework the Phenom II architecture : with the node shrink it would have been possible to add 2 more cores and make it a real 8 core design and a sales success. I don't even understand why would AMD pull resources into designing something completely new instead of staying on the beaten path. Interesting extensions and instructions are nothing if the software is not there to make it shine. What AMD needs right now is an architecture that would generate revenue, a true sales success like the K8 on socket 939 was : efficient, more powerful then Intel with existing software and cheaper!
For sswilson : I think AM1 is a dead end!

From what I have seen there were no laptops/nucs with the FX7600 cpu. Do you guys know of any mini/booksize configurations with Beema/Mullins?
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Old February 24, 2015, 04:25 PM
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Seems good on paper, but I can hardly trust the info as released from AMD for CPUs. They had bold claims for the last few APU and CPU releases, and none of them have turned out as well as the picture painted by pre-release info. I truly hope they find a silver bullet to get them back on track in the cpu world but I am not placing bets. APUs had a lot of potential (and still do), but they haven't been widely accepted, and their strengths are not always taken advantage of. The laptop I am writing this on is a llano based a8-3500m, and I love it, but they really need to get to a better production node for current CPUs.

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Originally Posted by Fragman View Post
AMD's current APUs are not able to do well because they lose to Intel on CPU performance and cannot provide the performance of a discrete GPU with GDDR5.
APU aren't designed to do that. Of course a single relatively cheap APU is going to loose to a CPU/GPU combo when each of those components cost more than the APU. It is designed to get good enough CPU performance, and GPU performance that is better than what you can find on other CPUs and comparable to entry level dedicated GPU. If they were able to get CPU performance that was better than intel and GPU performance comparable to a discrete ddr5 based GPU I am pretty sure we wouldn't be having this thread, as everyone would be raving about them.
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