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Old June 3, 2012, 02:26 PM
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I'll keep my fingers crossed, but I'm not going to hold my breath this time around.

As it stands, what I need is a proc that works well on all "cores" @ 100% performance for folding, not something that can do 20 things at once @ 20% performance.

Yes, intel hasn't blown us away with improvements, but they also haven't (to my knowledge) released an entirely new platform which is outperformed in many ways by it's own 2+ yr old tech. AMD needs to prove it can consistantly improve upon my heavy load 1090t performance by a substantial amount before I'll even consider it for my main rig.......

That said, my 250 X2 is looking to be upgraded and a sub $200 4.5 "real" core BD might fit the bill. (They're still slightly above $200).
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old June 3, 2012, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by sswilson View Post
I'll keep my fingers crossed, but I'm not going to hold my breath this time around.

As it stands, what I need is a proc that works well on all "cores" @ 100% performance for folding, not something that can do 20 things at once @ 20% performance.

Yes, intel hasn't blown us away with improvements, but they also haven't (to my knowledge) released an entirely new platform which is outperformed in many ways by it's own 2+ yr old tech. AMD needs to prove it can consistantly improve upon my heavy load 1090t performance by a substantial amount before I'll even consider it for my main rig.......

That said, my 250 X2 is looking to be upgraded and a sub $200 4.5 "real" core BD might fit the bill. (They're still slightly above $200).
See, here's the kicker for me .... IF by whats being reported is true that under the linux enviorment the chips preform as intented & = the sugested preformance ..... why is it a fail then when it should be then a windows failure insted of a architechural failure as so many say. To me it would fully point at there being a problem when amd was talkin with microsoft then & microsoft either boo-booin in there side of things or in what they provided to amd then.
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Old June 3, 2012, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by terrybear View Post
See, here's the kicker for me .... IF by whats being reported is true that under the linux enviorment the chips preform as intented & = the sugested preformance ..... why is it a fail then when it should be then a windows failure insted of a architechural failure as so many say. To me it would fully point at there being a problem when amd was talkin with microsoft then & microsoft either boo-booin in there side of things or in what they provided to amd then.
You can look at it either way really.

One view could be that AMD and Intel make a good amount of money for personal and business use, where probably 90-95% of them are using Windows. If you say that bulldozer works as intended only in the Linux environment, it would seem to me that AMD did not take into account their core market, which of course are Windows users.
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Old June 3, 2012, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by terrybear View Post
See, here's the kicker for me .... IF by whats being reported is true that under the linux enviorment the chips preform as intented & = the sugested preformance ..... why is it a fail then when it should be then a windows failure insted of a architechural failure as so many say. To me it would fully point at there being a problem when amd was talkin with microsoft then & microsoft either boo-booin in there side of things or in what they provided to amd then.
Because, for all intents and purposes, Windows IS the PC market. It's up to hardware manufacturers to either incorporate their new hardware into current abilities, or to provide their own drivers to make windows work correctly with it. If it's a server proc, then fine.... release it to the server market, don't release it to the general desktop market.

I also don't buy that it performs anywhere near intel procs under 100% load under linux. Maybe it works fine under steady loads, but the ability to tell the OS to avoid using the "fake" cores under linux is not going to make the 100% load "8 core" performance any better.

IMO, what really needs to happen is a change in marketing so that we've got a little bit of truth in advertising from AMDs end... if they stopped calling their 4.5 core procs 8 core units, I might be more inclined to cut them some slack, but AFAIC if they want to keep calling them 8 core units, we should be comparing their performance to 6/8 core intel procs.
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Old June 3, 2012, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by sswilson View Post
Because, for all intents and purposes, Windows IS the PC market. It's up to hardware manufacturers to either incorporate their new hardware into current abilities, or to provide their own drivers to make windows work correctly with it. If it's a server proc, then fine.... release it to the server market, don't release it to the general desktop market.

I also don't buy that it performs anywhere near intel procs under 100% load under linux. Maybe it works fine under steady loads, but the ability to tell the OS to avoid using the "fake" cores under linux is not going to make the 100% load "8 core" performance any better.

IMO, what really needs to happen is a change in marketing so that we've got a little bit of truth in advertising from AMDs end... if they stopped calling their 4.5 core procs 8 core units, I might be more inclined to cut them some slack, but AFAIC if they want to keep calling them 8 core units, we should be comparing their performance to 6/8 core intel procs.
Bingo. AMD is AMD's biggest problem right now. Their PR dept did NOT manage consumers expectations properly....and thus decent tech failed to live up to the insane hype. If you compare say an X4 to a Faildozer "8 core" the 'dozer wins...but when you comp it to a x6 its not so clear cut (and good luck trying to comp and contrast it to a Intel socket 2011 chip..or even Ivy Bridge!). WHEN AMD can put "12" cores on one chip...then yeah it will be a nice boost from the X6 PII's. Who knows by the time they can do a consumer 12 core...maybe they will ALSO get trim and SSD's right and I will be willing to give them another shot. Until then they shot themselves in the foot by letting their mouth write cheques their arse couldnt cash...
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Old June 3, 2012, 04:00 PM
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Bingo. AMD is AMD's biggest problem right now. Their PR dept did NOT manage consumers expectations properly....and thus decent tech failed to live up to the insane hype. If you compare say an X4 to a Faildozer "8 core" the 'dozer wins...but when you comp it to a x6 its not so clear cut (and good luck trying to comp and contrast it to a Intel socket 2011 chip..or even Ivy Bridge!). WHEN AMD can put "12" cores on one chip...then yeah it will be a nice boost from the X6 PII's. Who knows by the time they can do a consumer 12 core...maybe they will ALSO get trim and SSD's right and I will be willing to give them another shot. Until then they shot themselves in the foot by letting their mouth write cheques their arse couldnt cash...
I agree in some instances like thats why they fired most of the pr department. Also if you go by the most recent slides they're claiming up to 10 "cored" piledriver chips ... which doesnt make sence if they got the room for 6 moduals on a die thats what they should offer then.
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Old June 3, 2012, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by sswilson View Post
Because, for all intents and purposes, Windows IS the PC market. It's up to hardware manufacturers to either incorporate their new hardware into current abilities, or to provide their own drivers to make windows work correctly with it. If it's a server proc, then fine.... release it to the server market, don't release it to the general desktop market.
I agree with what you said there as well. Thats why i question weither its AMD's scewup or microsofts then that the cpu doesnt preform as it was intended to.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old June 3, 2012, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by terrybear View Post
I agree in some instances like thats why they fired most of the pr department. Also if you go by the most recent slides they're claiming up to 10 "cored" piledriver chips ... which doesnt make sence if they got the room for 6 moduals on a die thats what they should offer then.
It probably has as much to do with heat output / TDP as it does die space...after all its not like they are an overly cool running design. Though hopefully Trinity's improvement in this area will prove to a sign of things to come...as for many loyal AMD fans the OC potential was a big...nay... HUGE selling feature of the older designs. :)

EDIT:
IMHO, considering MS windows 7 was out loooong before 'dozer...its the chips fault not the OS. AMD didnt design to reality and rather desinged it to they wanted it reality to be. This is all well and fine IF you are the 800lb gorilla in the room...but when you are the underdog....its not a viable design philosophy.
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Old June 3, 2012, 04:50 PM
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Because, for all intents and purposes, Windows IS the PC market.
This is what I was trying to get at. I remember visiting their website, seeing on their facebook page, and several other places where they were promoting their new bulldozer processors in GAMING rigs. Well who the hell can game in Linux other then a handful of games?
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Old June 3, 2012, 05:30 PM
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BD is probably fine for gaming... there aren't a hell of a lot of games these days which are CPU bound, and I suspect that most of those that are would benefit from more threads rather than straight clock speed. OTOH, even though I don't use my PC for "Work", what I do with it 24/7 requires raw processing power at full loads... BD falls far short when it comes to that.

Would putting a BD into a family PC be a bad thing? Not really if the price was right, but just like Nvidia rules the FAH GPU market, BD doesn't even come close for that kind of application, and thus is not suited for my own personal use.
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