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  #211 (permalink)  
Old October 16, 2011, 05:48 PM
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Do we really think they stand a hope in hell of putting out something "new" within the next 3 years? It's been so long since AMD had a winner, and Intel has been pricing their procs aggressively in order to take away any budget advantage AMD might try to take advantage of, I really have to wonder if bulldozer might be the final nail in the coffin when it comes to mainstream AMD desktop procs.

I know I'm a bit PO'd about waiting for this piece of crud to be released, and my next major upgrade certainly won't be an AMD based system unless they somehow manage to come out with something that directly competes with Intel's offerings (it'll probably have to outperform Intel to get me interested at all).

In fact, considering all of the recent issues with AMD hardware (crap proc release, no trim chipsets, no SLI available at launch on their SLI 990FX chipset boards, etc..........) that I've purchased, it'll take one hell of an incentive to get me back at all from this point forward.
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  #212 (permalink)  
Old October 16, 2011, 06:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sswilson View Post
Do we really think they stand a hope in hell of putting out something "new" within the next 3 years? It's been so long since AMD had a winner, and Intel has been pricing their procs aggressively in order to take away any budget advantage AMD might try to take advantage of, I really have to wonder if bulldozer might be the final nail in the coffin when it comes to mainstream AMD desktop procs.

I know I'm a bit PO'd about waiting for this piece of crud to be released, and my next major upgrade certainly won't be an AMD based system unless they somehow manage to come out with something that directly competes with Intel's offerings (it'll probably have to outperform Intel to get me interested at all).

In fact, considering all of the recent issues with AMD hardware (crap proc release, no trim chipsets, no SLI available at launch on their SLI 990FX chipset boards, etc..........) that I've purchased, it'll take one hell of an incentive to get me back at all from this point forward.
I'll go under the asumption you mean trim comand in a raid configuration .... cause otherwise why would my ssd have trim enabled ? BUT i agree, with the bandwidth the chipsets have 2 ssd's in a raid 0 configuration would probly push its i/o preformance past intels.

And yes those of us whom try to support amd by choice or not definately got every right to be peeved by this ... but at the same time is ivy bridge coming up any better atm ... nope ..
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  #213 (permalink)  
Old October 16, 2011, 06:54 PM
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TRIM with ONE solid state drive is hit and miss with AMD. I know MY own 890 mobo is a prima-dona about it and honestly I have serious reservations that the TRIM command is being passed (way to much activity happens when the rig is idling and thus way to many dirty cells needing ITGC lovin'). The fact that AMD only got TRIM with their 8 series is what SSW is talking about....and then half asses it.

As for why would you want TRIM enabled....sigh. IMNSHO, No trim == no sandforce ssds. This limits you options severely.

How you can say Ivy Bridge wont be better? Bulldozer cant even compete against THIS gen Sandy Bridge...even if Ivy Bridge "only" brings single digit improvements and single digit power consumption improvements over SB...AMD is toast in the short and mid term. Cant see a bright side here for AMD as you got 2011 going to own the top end. SB and then Ivy bridge owning the mid and low end...with AMD owning ???
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  #214 (permalink)  
Old October 16, 2011, 07:18 PM
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Originally Posted by AkG View Post
TRIM with ONE solid state drive is hit and miss with AMD. I know MY own 890 mobo is a prima-dona about it and honestly I have serious reservations that the TRIM command is being passed (way to much activity happens when the rig is idling and thus way to many dirty cells needing ITGC lovin'). The fact that AMD only got TRIM with their 8 series is what SSW is talking about....and then half asses it.

As for why would you want TRIM enabled....sigh. IMNSHO, No trim == no sandforce ssds. This limits you options severely.

How you can say Ivy Bridge wont be better? Bulldozer cant even compete against THIS gen Sandy Bridge...even if Ivy Bridge "only" brings single digit improvements and single digit power consumption improvements over SB...AMD is toast in the short and mid term. Cant see a bright side here for AMD as you got 2011 going to own the top end. SB and then Ivy bridge owning the mid and low end...with AMD owning ???
I just mean i don't see intel's ivy bridge (tock) as being something that is goin to push amd further down as i don't see it enticing anyone with a sb setup to grab 1. IF they can execute the piledriver (tock) with better preformance & closer to the bridges then maybe there's a chance to recover some of the damage.
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Old October 16, 2011, 07:23 PM
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Well here is the thing. If you have a customer with a SB looking to upgrade are they realistically going to go with AMD (ie new mobo and chip) or just drop in a new chip? If they are going to spend the coin on a new mobo and cpu, arent they more likely to opt for 2011 than AMD? Honestly, the only peeps I can see buying the Bulldozer chip is peeps who already have an AMD rig and MAYBE want to get a bit more. Sadly, 1090Ts have been very reasonably priced for awhile now...so I cant see peeps going from a 1090T to a 8 core BD.

Its a numbers game and AMD hasnt got the numbers this gen. This indeed does make me sad as I was truly hoping for a home run as that would have further pushed the industry into getting better and better. Now....Intel can coast without needing to do anything better and they STILL will make billions. Sad day for the industry as a whole and consumers too. :(
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  #216 (permalink)  
Old October 17, 2011, 08:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by terrybear View Post
I'll go under the asumption you mean trim comand in a raid configuration .... cause otherwise why would my ssd have trim enabled ? BUT i agree, with the bandwidth the chipsets have 2 ssd's in a raid 0 configuration would probly push its i/o preformance past intels.

And yes those of us whom try to support amd by choice or not definately got every right to be peeved by this ... but at the same time is ivy bridge coming up any better atm ... nope ..
Quote:
Originally Posted by AkG View Post
TRIM with ONE solid state drive is hit and miss with AMD. I know MY own 890 mobo is a prima-dona about it and honestly I have serious reservations that the TRIM command is being passed (way to much activity happens when the rig is idling and thus way to many dirty cells needing ITGC lovin'). The fact that AMD only got TRIM with their 8 series is what SSW is talking about....and then half asses it.

As for why would you want TRIM enabled....sigh. IMNSHO, No trim == no sandforce ssds. This limits you options severely.

How you can say Ivy Bridge wont be better? Bulldozer cant even compete against THIS gen Sandy Bridge...even if Ivy Bridge "only" brings single digit improvements and single digit power consumption improvements over SB...AMD is toast in the short and mid term. Cant see a bright side here for AMD as you got 2011 going to own the top end. SB and then Ivy bridge owning the mid and low end...with AMD owning ???
Nope, AFAIK even intels don't pass along the trim command in raid, although IIRC on intel chipsets with hybrid setups (i.e. raid HDD for storage + single SSD for OS) the trim command will be passed to the non-raid SSD while AMD chipsets still don't have that ability.

What I was referring to was the complete absence of TRIM capabilities on AMD chipsets for the longest period of time, and even worse, their complete silence on the issue when questions were being asked.
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  #217 (permalink)  
Old October 17, 2011, 09:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by terrybear View Post
I just mean i don't see intel's ivy bridge (tock) as being something that is goin to push amd further down as i don't see it enticing anyone with a sb setup to grab 1. IF they can execute the piledriver (tock) with better preformance & closer to the bridges then maybe there's a chance to recover some of the damage.
Sadly intel doesn't need to do much to have AMD get pushed down.
For a while now AMD has half assed a lot of things that it really should have pushed for. TRIM, Native SLI support (yes you could hack it but still, thats not the point for a lot of people) and then when they did finally support SLI on the new 990 Series CHipsets it was done poorly....

They have done a good enough job themselves.
And When SB-e hits or even Ivy I know the route a lot of people are going to go.

And, if you think that people are going to wait for Piledriver its only going to be the most hardcore of the Fanbois.
A LOT of people waited for BD. It's launch was pale and lacklustre and proved itself to be far behind Intels Dev....That will seal the deal for people waiting on PD.



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  #218 (permalink)  
Old October 17, 2011, 09:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sswilson View Post
Nope, AFAIK even intels don't pass along the trim command in raid, although IIRC on intel chipsets with hybrid setups (i.e. raid HDD for storage + single SSD for OS) the trim command will be passed to the non-raid SSD while AMD chipsets still don't have that ability.

What I was referring to was the complete absence of TRIM capabilities on AMD chipsets for the longest period of time, and even worse, their complete silence on the issue when questions were being asked.
Actually sswilson I remember your posts over at the AMD forums trying to get concrete info on TRIM. I too was lurking waiting for a clear answer.

@AkG: Interesting about your AMD trim comment. I also doubt that trim is working properly. I told someone I know with a 890fx chipset that trim was working with the latest AMD drivers. He did a new install on AHCI mode with Win7 and noticed slowdowns as well. I don't know which SSD he had though, but he since moved the ssd to a laptop that had Intel chipset (SB based cpu) and noticed no slowdowns. I always wondered if it was a configuration issue on the user's end, improper drivers, or that trim was just not working.
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  #219 (permalink)  
Old October 17, 2011, 11:22 PM
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Not shure if I can link in this thread & this site but ... AMD FX-8150 Black Edition CPU Water Cooler Review - AMD FX Water Cooler - Legit Reviews in this comparision w/ the boxed liquid coolers ... 4.8 ghz stable cross all 8 cores.
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  #220 (permalink)  
Old October 17, 2011, 11:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisk View Post
Actually sswilson I remember your posts over at the AMD forums trying to get concrete info on TRIM. I too was lurking waiting for a clear answer.

@AkG: Interesting about your AMD trim comment. I also doubt that trim is working properly. I told someone I know with a 890fx chipset that trim was working with the latest AMD drivers. He did a new install on AHCI mode with Win7 and noticed slowdowns as well. I don't know which SSD he had though, but he since moved the ssd to a laptop that had Intel chipset (SB based cpu) and noticed no slowdowns. I always wondered if it was a configuration issue on the user's end, improper drivers, or that trim was just not working.
Your friend isnt imagining things. Its the mobo. Honestly, I am so fed up with AMD and TRIM on my 890 that my next rig WILL be Intel. Either 2011 or 1155..not sure which as I wont be buying before the new year. For AMD rigs now I basically tell anyone who asks me: "Dont count on TRIM. Buy a SSD that can take care of itself". It makes things easier as the Crucial M4 (my new fav) fits the bill perfectly...making it my number one choice for both AMD and Intel rigs.
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