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  #51 (permalink)  
Old January 28, 2011, 08:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Eagle Eye_54 View Post
The big issue (or at least, it should be the big issue) is quality & reliability first and foremost. It has to perform and be serviceable when I want to use it. That is why I bought ASUS.

The reviewers might write glowing reviews about a specific board but you can bet they won't tell you brand A has a 30% failure rate & Brand B only has a 10%. (the percentages noted are for example purposes only). I wish that Consumers Magazine or similar non-profit outfit would cover computer products (other than the redi-built ones). However, I have read enough forum comments and talked to enough salespeople at big retail outlets to put two and two together. Heck, even the writers drop hints now and then if you read closely. It is clear that ASUS are far more reliable than other brands and I am sure that is the reason they outsell the other guys. As for specs and performance, all the comparable mobos offer very similar results and a few percentage points either way is meaningless anyway. As for features, the new P67 ASUS boards have a lot going for them and that includes the new BIOS interface. If it was available when I bought, I would have taken a P67 Sabretooth for it mil-spec components and higher level BIOS (I understand it is similar to the new high line P67 Maximus). As a point of interest, Memory Express has the Sabre on special (taking orders) for $219.99, which is $30 off.
I actually have one of the Saber's on hold at memory. Going to pick it up on tuesday unless my mind changes to the UD7 by then.

Honestly, I'm trying to figure out if the look (prefer UD7), x16 dual PCIE, extra USB 3.0 ports, and onboard power/cmos is worth the extra $100.

The UD7 would look better with my red theme although neither are ideal (MIVE would be the ideal look), and I could get IPR on both at memory which nullifies the costumer service concerns...
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  #52 (permalink)  
Old January 29, 2011, 05:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by writhen View Post
....The UD7 would look better with my red theme although neither are ideal ...
so wait for the maximus, they arrive in America yesterday
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  #53 (permalink)  
Old January 29, 2011, 10:03 AM
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I wish that Consumers Magazine or similar non-profit outfit would cover computer products (other than the redi-built ones)
Guys,

This site, BEHARDWARE, publishes periodically the return rate of major components (stats are coming from RMA numbers from a major european etailer):

-Motherboards
-Power supplies
-RAM
-video cards
-HDD & SSDs

This is the latest one:

Components returns rates (page 1: Introduction) - BeHardware

There is some pretty surprising results in this thing...I recommend that you read the whole article from BEHARDWARE...the same can be found on the french version HARDWARE.FR...

Les taux de pannes des composants (page 1: Introduction) - HardWare.fr

Quote:
What can we expect in the future? We canít yet predict it, but we can give you a list of the three products sold between June 1st and December 1st (from 0 to 6 months use) that have the highest returns rates by category:

Motherboards:
- 4.42%: ASUS P5N-D SLI
- 4.29%: ASUS P6T Deluxe V2
- 3.68%: ASRock P4I65G

Alimentation:
- 6.16%: Fortron Blue Storm Bronze 500
- 2.63%: HIPER New S S625
- 2.26%: Antec EarthWatts EA650

Hard drives:
- 8.62%: Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 160 GB
- 4.48%: Samsung SpinPoint F1 1 TB
- 3.41%: Hitachi Deskstar 7K2000

RAM:
- 9.43%: Corsair Dominator 2x2 GB DDR2 PC2-8500 CL5 - TWIN2X4096-8500C5D
- 8.68%: Corsair XMS3 DHX 2x2 GB DDR3 PC3-10600 - TW3X4096-1333C9DHX
- 6.95%: OCZ Gold Edition 2x2 GB DDR3 PC3-10666 - OCZ3G1333LV4GK

Graphics cards:
- 6.28%: XFX ATI Radeon HD 5870 1024 MB
- 5.66%: Gigabyte GV-R587UD-1GD (Radeon HD 5870)
- 4.76%: XFX ATI Radeon HD 5970 Black Edition 2 GB

SSD:
- 2.80%: OCZ Vertex 2 90 GB
- 2.66%: OCZ Agility 2 120 GB
- 1.83%: OCZ Agility 2 60 GB
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Last edited by Delavan; January 29, 2011 at 10:11 AM.
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  #54 (permalink)  
Old January 29, 2011, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by botat29 View Post
so wait for the maximus, they arrive in America yesterday
They've been on Newegg since third week of January, yet memory still doesn't have them. It is very surprising to see the RMA on Asus boards on the BEHARDWARE site though...I'm pretty floored.
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  #55 (permalink)  
Old January 29, 2011, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Dead Things View Post
Asrock is, after all, ASUS's entry-level/value-oriented brand.
It was. Now they're on their own.
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  #56 (permalink)  
Old January 29, 2011, 12:14 PM
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Wow! Those returns rates are exactly what we need to make informed purchase decisions. It correlates to what I have been told recently by my salesman too. For example, I needed a PSU and had decided on the Corsair HX750 based on reviews and reports I had read. My salesman looked around to see if anyone could hear him and then whispered to me.....Corsair HX series stuff sucks. We get most of them back for RMA. He said get the AX series and you will be happy. So I did. Then I said I wanted Corsair RAM and he said high RMA, get the Kingston stuff, it is the best. So I did. Based on the BEHARDWARE site stats, I'd say what he said was correct again.

What amazes me the most is that most people have perceptions about products that are actually wrong. Sort of like the bored Maytag repairman ad campaign that lead people to believe that Maytag were so dependable. Then I bought Consumers Magazine and found out otherwise! I perceive that most people think very highly of Corsair products and perceive them to be high end. But after reading the RMA rate for them, I am thinking otherwise. At the same time, I believe most people buying computer products perceive Kingston RAM to be low end stuff where actually, they are very good, dependable products. Sounds like Kingston needs to start an ad campaign to re-educate the buying public perhaps, eh?

Wow, thanks for posting that URL.
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  #57 (permalink)  
Old January 29, 2011, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagle Eye_54 View Post
Wow! Those returns rates are exactly what we need to make informed purchase decisions. It correlates to what I have been told recently by my salesman too. For example, I needed a PSU and had decided on the Corsair HX750 based on reviews and reports I had read. My salesman looked around to see if anyone could hear him and then whispered to me.....Corsair HX series stuff sucks. We get most of them back for RMA. He said get the AX series and you will be happy. So I did. Then I said I wanted Corsair RAM and he said high RMA, get the Kingston stuff, it is the best. So I did. Based on the BEHARDWARE site stats, I'd say what he said was correct again.

What amazes me the most is that most people have perceptions about products that are actually wrong. Sort of like the bored Maytag repairman ad campaign that lead people to believe that Maytag were so dependable. Then I bought Consumers Magazine and found out otherwise! I perceive that most people think very highly of Corsair products and perceive them to be high end. But after reading the RMA rate for them, I am thinking otherwise. At the same time, I believe most people buying computer products perceive Kingston RAM to be low end stuff where actually, they are very good, dependable products. Sounds like Kingston needs to start an ad campaign to re-educate the buying public perhaps, eh?

Wow, thanks for posting that URL.

The salesman you talked to is a fool (read idiot)

Certain items have higher RMA rates simply due to market forces. More popular brands will tend to have inflated RMA rates, because there are more of them. Not to mention, the more popular brands get sold more often, and thus get into the hands of many uneducated individuals which can result in higher returns.

Not that I don't like Cooler Master, but the fact that, that website lists their (and Thermaltake's) PSU's as having a lower RMA rate than Fortron, Seasonic, Enermax speaks VOLUMES about the quality of that data.

Average Electronics failure rates sit at about 5%, so every looks pretty average imo.
Also, given that this info came from a retailer, that is only RMA rates within a select period, from a select European market, and on returns not defects so it's really not an actual representation of what the brand experiences globally as actual "defects".

Last edited by FiXT; January 29, 2011 at 05:17 PM.
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  #58 (permalink)  
Old January 29, 2011, 12:50 PM
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Lol. That salesguy was a tard. Corsair's HX stuff is phenomenal, and so is their RAM.

The return rate numbers quoted above probably aren't very representative either. They are from one retailers, which means the sampling is not really that great... Those RAM numbers look ridiculous too, but we also know how bad DDR2 was back then in terms of compatibility and reliability.

Don't forget, most of these "brands" are all getting their ICs, video cards, and other board components from th same place.

Comparing (for example) XFX video card return rate to EVGA failure rate is just an exercise in "who had the best luck in the given time period"
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  #59 (permalink)  
Old January 29, 2011, 02:06 PM
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There's no way those return rates are accurate. Period.

I've only seen numbers in the 10% range a couple of times ever on medium to high run rate products, and they were DOGS. Everyone knew they were bad (ie Striker Extreme).

And I can tell you for 100% certain undeniable FACT that Corsair HX power supplies don't come back at that kind of rate unless the customers of that store make a habit of dropping paperclips into them until the sparks come out...

Same goes for G.Skill RAM... From our internal testing it's right up there for reliability and compatibility. Bear in mind EVERY RAM manufacturer goes through bad batches once in a while (let's face it, they're all getting chips from somewhere and unless your name is Samsung, Hynix, or Crucial you probably aren't manufacturing the chips themselves) so depending on the timing of the survey the results could be completely non-representative.
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  #60 (permalink)  
Old January 29, 2011, 02:48 PM
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Wow,

Seems like my link created a situation! Even Mighty Linus shows up!

LINUS: I really trust your opinion, but the sad thing is that you, or NCIX, will never publish your RMA numbers...that would hurt the sales, of course...the writer of said article mentioned that they got the numbers from the etailer from somebody within....it's not 100% representative, but cannot be completely called BS..after all we're talking about less than 10% failure rate....and only in a few rare cases...


You have to take those numbers in perspective YES, but I feel a lot of hurt feelings from actual proud owners of some of the stuff mentioned in the article...

OCZ RAM...had a higher failure rate...anybody agree? They even stopped making that stuff!!!

Some specific PSU models from popular brands might be lower quality...possible right?

Gigabyte mobos being really good, but maybe had a few more issue during the P55 era...possible right?
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