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  #21 (permalink)  
Old January 14, 2011, 10:30 AM
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If I remember correctly, 3 year warranty, receipt and stock cooler required. I'm sure someone can confirm. It does sound like the chip may be on it's last leg.. I can't think of anything else that would be causing such a problem that hasn't been covered already.

At any rate the next time the Hyper 212+ is on sale at NCIX for $19.99, grab it. Amazing cooler especially for the price, leagues ahead of the stock coolers that Intel provides for their CPUs.
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Old January 14, 2011, 12:11 PM
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whats your idle temp
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Old January 14, 2011, 06:30 PM
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Originally Posted by KaptCrunch View Post
whats your idle temp
about 37..

edit: and I DID get it within the last 3 years, just did the math. But i think the 3 year anniversary might be coming up soon. I believe i bought it from NCIX so would the digital transaction stuff work as a 'receipt' ?

edit: but i most definitely do NOT have the original packaging. Don't have the room to keep such a flimsy box around. damn i hope that doesn't complicate things too much.

Last edited by overlords; January 14, 2011 at 06:37 PM.
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Old January 14, 2011, 07:06 PM
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Check tjmax in realtemp/coretemp. Both programs are known to read that value incorrectly for the q9450. Your actual temps could be 20c lower.

Disable 2 cores in BIOS, disable crossfire, then try the game again on relatively low settings. That game can slow down if it tries to use too many cores, it's heavily single threaded and requires a lot of raw clock speed. Crossfire support is also incredibly pathetic.

EDIT: just saw your previous comment on the FPS you were getting, 25-60 isn't surprising for this game considering your hardware. (assuming you haven't overclocked anything)
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Old January 14, 2011, 10:16 PM
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Originally Posted by ilya View Post
Check tjmax in realtemp/coretemp. Both programs are known to read that value incorrectly for the q9450. Your actual temps could be 20c lower.

Disable 2 cores in BIOS, disable crossfire, then try the game again on relatively low settings. That game can slow down if it tries to use too many cores, it's heavily single threaded and requires a lot of raw clock speed. Crossfire support is also incredibly pathetic.

EDIT: just saw your previous comment on the FPS you were getting, 25-60 isn't surprising for this game considering your hardware. (assuming you haven't overclocked anything)
That was the average but was still dropping below that anytime near NPC's. I know there's problems with that, but i'd have to respectfully disagree that a q9450 and 5970 could produce results this poor on any modern game. I've also seen youtube vids of people running this game on similar builds or inferior builds and it running more than fine, but with resource devouring graphical improvements like Quarls Texture Packs. Seems to me I also had below average results for the CPU portion of Vantage benchmarks. I'll run one tomorrow and post the results tomorrow.

That coupled with the prime 95 *race to 90 degrees* derby, i find it hard to believe these problems are isolated to oblivion. I'm in the process of acquiring Arkham Asylum, a game that only months ago was running fine on max settings. If that shows signs of reduced performance, then something has to have changed *without* me changing anything. my computer has not moved, nor have i altered any integral settings in the bios or what have you.


thanks again to everyone helping me figure this thing out. I really need this computer with school starting very soon. I can't afford to not have it for a prolonged period of time. Appreciate it.
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Old January 15, 2011, 03:59 AM
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Reading back on my post after your response, I apologize if it sounded like I was bad mouthing your build, didn't mean to offend you in any way if I did.

What I'm trying to say is the 90c temps can very easily be explained by an incorrect tjmax value. Real Temp takes a guess at this value and is usually pretty accurate with most modern processors. However, the value for the Q9450 in particular has been subject to a ton of controversy. Intel suggested 100c for the Q9xxx series, but also said there could be a difference between different chips, even if they're the same model and stepping. A lot of people find 85c to be the most realistic temperature. Real Temp has a sensor test that can be used to calibrate tjmax.

If thermal throttling during games was the reason for poor performance, prime95 likely would've caused your system to shut down almost instantly due to insane temperatures.

No need to give yourself a heart attack over a problem that probably isn't very serious in the first place.

Poor game performance can be attributed to a ton of other problems that aren't uncommon to the TES series and are probably more likely.

If you haven't already finished downloading Batman AA, I would just download 3dmark and run that. It'll be faster, easier, and fairly safe if there really is a serious problem.
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Old January 15, 2011, 07:42 AM
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For some reason I never put together 5970 + Oblivion, was completely focused on the Q9450 potentially overheating. Good catch ilya.

You're not alone in performance problems with this game.. some people with I7s and the same GPU or crossfire in general have had a hell of a time getting it to work as well. Trying with internal crossfire disabled on your 5970 is worth a shot, but this game was so horribly coded who knows if you'll be able to get it to run properly.

frames per second in Oblivion - [H]ard|Forum

I've always wanted to replay Oblivion, but the vanilla game left such a sour taste in my mouth that it's difficult to go back to it even heavily modded. (Yes, I am one of the oldguard that happens to prefer Daggerfall over all others in the series :P)
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Old January 15, 2011, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by ilya View Post
Reading back on my post after your response, I apologize if it sounded like I was bad mouthing your build, didn't mean to offend you in any way if I did.

What I'm trying to say is the 90c temps can very easily be explained by an incorrect tjmax value. Real Temp takes a guess at this value and is usually pretty accurate with most modern processors. However, the value for the Q9450 in particular has been subject to a ton of controversy. Intel suggested 100c for the Q9xxx series, but also said there could be a difference between different chips, even if they're the same model and stepping. A lot of people find 85c to be the most realistic temperature. Real Temp has a sensor test that can be used to calibrate tjmax.

If thermal throttling during games was the reason for poor performance, prime95 likely would've caused your system to shut down almost instantly due to insane temperatures.

No need to give yourself a heart attack over a problem that probably isn't very serious in the first place.

Poor game performance can be attributed to a ton of other problems that aren't uncommon to the TES series and are probably more likely.

If you haven't already finished downloading Batman AA, I would just download 3dmark and run that. It'll be faster, easier, and fairly safe if there really is a serious problem.
Whoa whoa, i said 'acquiring', not 'downloading'...

Both programs display 100 degrees as tj max. I can't run the full sensor test because when it tells me to run the small ffts with prime95, my processor goes to insane temps. This time i got to 90+ degrees before the 'heat up phase' passed 20%. Should i let it keep going? I don't want to push it too hard so that it fries something.

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Originally Posted by Vittra View Post
For some reason I never put together 5970 + Oblivion, was completely focused on the Q9450 potentially overheating. Good catch ilya.

You're not alone in performance problems with this game.. some people with I7s and the same GPU or crossfire in general have had a hell of a time getting it to work as well. Trying with internal crossfire disabled on your 5970 is worth a shot, but this game was so horribly coded who knows if you'll be able to get it to run properly.

frames per second in Oblivion - [H]ard|Forum


I've always wanted to replay Oblivion, but the vanilla game left such a sour taste in my mouth that it's difficult to go back to it even heavily modded. (Yes, I am one of the oldguard that happens to prefer Daggerfall over all others in the series :P)
I'll try some tests with internal crossfire shut off. Good idea. Oblivion was a good game, I had a lot of fun with it. While your favorite was daggerfall, mine was Morrowind. And I'll agree that Oblivion definitely was not up to par with either of those. Lets cross our fingers for Skyrim. Not to go too off topic here, but i'd recommend looking into modding your oblivion, as most of the things that likely left a sour taste in your mouth ( levelled enemies with insane armor, too much bloom, bad magic systems) have been redone, and you'll likely be pleased if you have the time to try it out.

And if it seems like I'm freaking out a bit, it's because i fear i may be creeping up on that warranty deadline. This rig is like a child to me and i'm usually great at troubleshooting the problems. This is the first time I haven't been able to atleast partially fix it on my own.
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Old January 15, 2011, 03:28 PM
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If tjmax is at 100c, let it run till it hits that, watch your multiplier in realtemp. Don't worry, you won't fry your chip, just make sure your voltages are at stock. If the tjmax really is 100c, you'll be running at slightly unsafe temps, but not to the point that you're in any immediate danger of damaging your chip. If tjmax isn't 100c, you're definitely in the safe zone. Also check to see how fast your CPU fan ramps up. I would actually recommend using LinX for this as it will save you from the prolonged heart attack of prime95 working up the temps. (it'll get the temps up there faster and if something does go wrong, you'll be in less trouble)

If your system doesn't crash right away, your multiplier doesn't plummet, and your fan doesn't ramp straight up to max RPM, your tjmax is probably closer to 85c. Which also means your full load temps from before are in the realm of ~60c, perfectly normal for this chip on stock cooling. Many people have confirmed 85c as the most realistic tjmax with their own testing. However all chips have a different tjmax, so take that with a grain of salt.

I'd understand if you were worried sick, I probably would be to and would've already bought an aftermarket cooler to improve/test temperatures. But that's why asking a great forum community for help is always a good idea. But if you think about it calmly, Intel CPUs are pretty darn resilient when it comes to heat, it usually takes some fairly extreme abuse to actually kill one. (not that you should abuse them)

PS: I thought you would be "acquiring" off Steam or something. Hence the choice of words.
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Old January 15, 2011, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by ilya View Post
If tjmax is at 100c, let it run till it hits that, watch your multiplier in realtemp. Don't worry, you won't fry your chip, just make sure your voltages are at stock. If the tjmax really is 100c, you'll be running at slightly unsafe temps, but not to the point that you're in any immediate danger of damaging your chip. If tjmax isn't 100c, you're definitely in the safe zone. Also check to see how fast your CPU fan ramps up. I would actually recommend using LinX for this as it will save you from the prolonged heart attack of prime95 working up the temps. (it'll get the temps up there faster and if something does go wrong, you'll be in less trouble)

If your system doesn't crash right away, your multiplier doesn't plummet, and your fan doesn't ramp straight up to max RPM, your tjmax is probably closer to 85c. Which also means your full load temps from before are in the realm of ~60c, perfectly normal for this chip on stock cooling. Many people have confirmed 85c as the most realistic tjmax with their own testing. However all chips have a different tjmax, so take that with a grain of salt.

I'd understand if you were worried sick, I probably would be to and would've already bought an aftermarket cooler to improve/test temperatures. But that's why asking a great forum community for help is always a good idea. But if you think about it calmly, Intel CPUs are pretty darn resilient when it comes to heat, it usually takes some fairly extreme abuse to actually kill one. (not that you should abuse them)

PS: I thought you would be "acquiring" off Steam or something. Hence the choice of words.
computer crashed, but quite a bit after 100. I didn't really notice the cpu fan doing anything different near 100. Didn't notice the cpu fan do anything different during any time during the test tbh, but i was more focusing on the numbers.

So if my computer didn't crash/blow up/ melt down anywhere near the 100 mark, that means my tj max is around 85?

By setting it at 85 i get idle temps around 20 degrees. Which seems too low for me. My room is cold, but not that cold.

And why would a simple sensor test cause a good cpu like mine to crash at around 40% completion? Doesn't make sense to me.

Last edited by overlords; January 15, 2011 at 04:59 PM.
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