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  #21 (permalink)  
Old November 19, 2007, 10:05 PM
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Certainly insightful. Could there be a chipset limitation? Or maybe these new chips have fumbled in the way they handle multiple threads. It's certainly not looking good for these Barcelona derivatives after such a long wait. But I'm suspecting something wrong with the way these chips work with four cores. I mean, they've got all of the specifications to produce better results.
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Old November 19, 2007, 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Squeetard View Post
I disagree. When I upgraded from the C2D to the Q6600 my game scores in FEAR, 3dmark, HL2 and Oblivion all jumped by a huge amount, like 20 fps on average. same mobo, same vid card.
Were the jump in scores meaningful? (Where they under ~60Hz in the first place?)

FWIW, I do all my gaming at 1920x1200, so for myself, stuff is going to be gpu-bound a lot sooner than people running at lower resolutions.

Either way, we're going to come to the same conclusion in parts most of the time, I'd simply caution that if someone is looking to upgrade any component for increased game performance, they do a quick beforehand to see where their bottlenecks are.
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Old November 19, 2007, 10:42 PM
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According to some other reviews, the low bandwidth scores in Sandra are due to the program not detecting (or testing) the bandwidth correctly. Apparently AMD has a tool that can check the real bandwidth...

Hopefully the B3 stepping will fix all the problems in the phenom. As for the whole platform, it looks very promising.
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Old November 19, 2007, 11:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Thund3rball View Post
I have a certain amount of hope for the Spider Platform. It's a great concept with what seems to me, is a typical 1st generation bump in the road. AMD has their eye on the bigger picture and this is the first full-line we are seeing from the merger. With this launch under their belts and a full steam ahead attitude we might see great things in the future. They have some work to do, know doubt, but maybe they can push through the struggles and deliver some real magic down the road. I'll keep my fingers crossed.

Great (p)review BTW. Thanks HWC, you really know how to deliver the goods.
That's exactly what I've been thinking. I kind of suspected the Phenom wouldn't be able to compete w/ the Conroe and especially not the Penryn based on the Barcelona Opteron reviews, but the Spider platform looks to be very well thought-out. I love the idea of being able to start off w/ 1-2 GPUs and then add another 1-2 GPUs as necessary plus the ability to upgrade my CPU 2 years from now w/o swapping out the memory or motherboard w/ it like I would have to do if I bought into Intel's current platforms. To me, that is worth a lot more than a 10-15% performance disadvantage at the present time ...
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Old November 20, 2007, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Mars View Post
I'm not sure how important cpu speed is for gaming... with a strong video card, at high graphics settings, most games only seem to vary a few fps between mid-range and top of the line cpus.

Of course, that doesn't help AMD a whole lot, you can't advertise products as being "only a few fps slower".

I think it can depend on the game but really CPUs can bottleneck gaming now more than ever before IMHO. As Sqeetard pointed out he's mostly playing RTS games. SupCom is one of the few games that does take advantage of quad core CPUs. And I can see a big difference between the OC'd C2Ds w/8800GTs and their Crysis time demo benches and my 4600+ w/a 8800 GT time demo bench. Not just a few FPS difference, more like a dozen or so, maybe even more.

Yes a good GPU is crucial for gaming but pair it with a lesser CPU and you have a bottleneck. I know my 3DMark06 score doesn't even hit 9,000 w/my current setup. Guys with OC'd C2Ds are hitting 12,000 - 14,000 np.
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Old November 20, 2007, 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Jmac View Post
I love the idea of being able to start off w/ 1-2 GPUs and then add another 1-2 GPUs as necessary plus the ability to upgrade my CPU 2 years from now w/o swapping out the memory or motherboard w/ it like I would have to do if I bought into Intel's current platforms.
That luxury will probably come at a measurable premium because boardmakers will have slower revenues since owners will stretch the ownership expectancy to the limits with this concept.
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Old November 20, 2007, 11:43 PM
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It already does come with a premium. Check out the L1N64-SLI WS....
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Old November 21, 2007, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Misoprostol View Post
Phenom at 2.7GHz is going to be about 15% faster than Phenom at 2.3GHz. Performance scales with clock speed. At 15% better than 2.3GHz, Phenom is still neck and neck with the Q6600.
Although I'm kinda disappointed, I still think there's something to be salvaged here.
The Q6600 is about $310 at NCIX, and the next step up, the Q6700, is almost double the cost. Don't even bother with the QX because they'll set you back a thousand.

Chances are, the Phenom won't beat it clock to clock, and you'll see the price drop down quite fast. What is the real concern here is whether Phenom yields well, and with the X3 announcement, it is a bit worrying.

It is possible to rework Phenom to have better clock to clock performance. From the reviews that I've read, the floating point performance is quite fast, but the integer performance is inexplicably slow.

It is a bit of a disappointing showing, but at least Intel won't be sitting around doing nothing for a while.
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Old November 21, 2007, 06:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Misoprostol View Post
It already does come with a premium. Check out the L1N64-SLI WS....
The L1N64 was out for quite a long time now. It was expensive because the board was the first of its kind--and it was utterly unchallenged for 1207 home market share until recently. So it really was monopolizing the segment a bit.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old November 21, 2007, 09:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Misoprostol View Post
It already does come with a premium. Check out the L1N64-SLI WS....
Uh, that board isn't even part of the Spider platform ...

I was talking about the 790FX chipset motherboards, which are priced similarly to other high-end consumer boards ($180-$285 on NCIX).
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