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  #431 (permalink)  
Old December 21, 2007, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by omgwtf View Post
OK please do, because right now I'm desperate...
ygpm
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  #432 (permalink)  
Old December 21, 2007, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Theblackmages View Post
I got 2 exhauts fans up top :P, i think if i put one on the back it'll **** it up, on a side not i got my HD3870.
Ahh, I see that now... the Freezer is up pointy!

Got a different suggestion for you then. This is an easy thing to test, all you need is a bit of cardboard and some masking tape.

Reasoning: I've found that with some cases the grated venting in certain places actually inhibits cooling performance. Plugging them up often produces much lower temperatures. What happens is that the system sucks cool air in from the venting, instead of drawing intake air through the system then out the exhaust. It therefore causes stagnant air to accumulate in areas of the case. It can also suck HOT air in, which was just exhausted, in a vicious circle that ends up cooking the entire system. Since your exhaust is at the top of the case, and hot air rises, you won't have the extreme problem. But your PSU being at the bottom may still be feeding hot air in through that grating.

So to test for this is simple. Cut a piece of cardboard that will fit and block the fan grating on the rear. Fire up something that will monitor temperatures, either a utility that cames with the mobo or Speedfan or Everest etc. Fire up the system and put it under load with Prime, Superprime, or Folding at Home etc. Watch the temps for a while, till they increase no more. Then plug the hole and watch for long enough to see if the temps go UP or DOWN.

If they go UP, then you can conclude that the open fan grating is fine and remove the cardboard.

If they go DOWN, then you can make a more permenant solution to blocking the hole, simply paint the cardboard or fabricate a better plug with some plastic you cut from an old school binder or whatever else you have on hand. You can also experiment some more by changing the airflow configuration, increasing or decreasing fan speeds and the like.

I'd love to hear any results you get if you try this. Especially since I sort of like that case and would be interested in any data you could post!

.
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  #433 (permalink)  
Old December 22, 2007, 01:51 PM
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okay so are you talking about the grating on the bottom of the case next to the PSU? Seems like an interesting idea to me.
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  #434 (permalink)  
Old December 22, 2007, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Theblackmages View Post
okay so are you talking about the grating on the bottom of the case next to the PSU? Seems like an interesting idea to me.
Nope. I mean the empty 120mm exhaust fan grating. The grating on the bottom of the case should be OK, but you can still easily test it.

The thing is, that bottom grating is part of the designed intake. It is possible, you have to test it first, that there is very little air coming in that way because the freezer pointed up and right next to the empty fan grating is sucking air in from the empty slot (which could easily be hot air exhausting from the PSU).

Like water, air will follow the path of least resistance. So if the airflow generated by the freezer gets it's supply easier from the empty fan slot, then the air from the bottom grating (and even the front of the case) will just sit there getting stagnant and hotter and hotter as time passes. So if you plug the grating, it will force the proper intake air to pass through the case and over the other components, cooling them on the way out past the freezer.

Too much intake and/or too much turbulence (too many fans) can cause the same problem. It's generally better to have more exhaust than intake, which forces the intake air to follow the path you want, helping the weaker intake fan along. However, this sometimes does not hold true, and only testing and experimentation can help you achieve optimum flow.

One really good test I discovered long ago, is also really easy to try. Simply load the system with Prime or F@H, monitor the temps till they flatline, then take off the side panel. If the temps go UP, you have it NAILED! If they go down, then it still may be fine, it just isn't perfect and may not be able to be perfect depending on the case.

The theory here is, the air that is cooling your system and CPU is room temperature. That is the limit you can achieve. When the side panel is OFF, your CPU (at least) is getting a free uninhibited supply of the coolest possible air. Therefore, if the temps go UP when you open the case, then with the case is closed you have such good airflow that the air never has a chance to gain much temperature on it's way through, and the flow is so good that it cools better than with a huge open supply of fresh stuff.

A couple of things affect this. Firstly, once the side panel is off, it often ruins any flow you have: front intake pushing to nowhere and out the side, exhaust sucking from outside to outside -- generally mobo, NB & SB, even video card temps will suffer. And it just doesn't work out well with some cases that have large open air front or side panels, which is logical because the system is essentially running with an opened panel anyway.

On a lot of cases, especially older ones, there is a duct and grating for a side panel fan and airflow directly to the CPU. I can't count how many systems I have plugged this on and got better temperatures. I have a box FULL of those ducts, useless in most cases.

Anyways, this is the first thing I test for when modifying a cases stock cooling configuration. Load it up, watch the temps, then open the side panel. Make my changes, and repeat. As soon as I see significant temp drops with the side panel on, I KNOW I have good airflow. If I cannot seem to achieve this with basic changes like fan speed or placement, I conclude the case may be the problem and move on. Many cases cannot do this, but many can. If the case has a grated sidepanel (CM Stacker 830 for example), I won't even bother. Two cases that NAIL this easily are the Thermaltake Matrix and Armor Jr -- odd, because they both have open screen/grated front bezels.



.
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Last edited by Lithotech; December 22, 2007 at 02:35 PM. Reason: Grammer
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  #435 (permalink)  
Old December 22, 2007, 03:42 PM
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hmmm I'm going to try that, I just put some cardboard on the back to see if it changes on idle, it doesnt really lol,I'll have to try it on load,also I have another empty grating on the side panelat the CPU level and since my AC goes from the side I'll have to test that one out too.

definetly thanks for helping me improve my case cooling.

It would be also better If I had real thermal probes because software doenst cut it really. one of my temps is at -128C and in cpu-z it states that my E2140 is running at 1.450 when it's running at 1.350.

EDIT: Also my powersupply Isn't taking hot air out, it's really cool on idle... plus im not that much stressing it i guess. there is my HD3870 taking hot air out while gaming ... that could do something too.
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  #436 (permalink)  
Old December 22, 2007, 04:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theblackmages View Post
hmmm I'm going to try that, I just put some cardboard on the back to see if it changes on idle, it doesnt really lol,I'll have to try it on load,also I have another empty grating on the side panelat the CPU level and since my AC goes from the side I'll have to test that one out too.

definetly thanks for helping me improve my case cooling.

It would be also better If I had real thermal probes because software doenst cut it really. one of my temps is at -128C and in cpu-z it states that my E2140 is running at 1.450 when it's running at 1.350.

EDIT: Also my powersupply Isn't taking hot air out, it's really cool on idle... plus im not that much stressing it i guess. there is my HD3870 taking hot air out while gaming ... that could do something too.
YVW!

Yes, you should plug that side vent as well, it'll be doing the exact same thing as the rear one. Open it up only if plugging them both raises temps. Then try it closed with the rear open. You can also mount a fan in it (the side panel one), that is very slow and quiet, and set it for exhaust -- that way no air or dust gets in through it, and the slow fan won't make noise or cause the freezer to have to fight for the air.

Loading the system just magnifies the results, making it easier to see a difference. At idle, especially if your fans automatically slow down, there may be little difference, if any.

Obviously, ignore erroneous temperature readings. Thermal probes are handy, but not necessary really. All you need is a couple temp sensors from the mobo, and the one(s) from the vid card. It doesn't matter if they are 2, 3, or 10 degrees out from what the actual temperature is, and only matters that they raise or lower when changes are made. Some borked temp sensors don't budge no matter what you do.

I've had an infra red handheld thermometer on my wishlist for a couple years, it would be incredibly handy to be able to simply point and shoot it at a place in the computer and get a readout! I passed on a $150 unit that was on sale at half price of $75, and regret it to this day! Eventually, yep, I will have one in my tool bag.

I've got several thermal sensors, or thermistors, from a few different products. They are great, accurate, and very handy for mobos that have no sensors. I bought a couple of CoolerMaster CoolDrive's out of London Drugs' bargin bin for 10 bucks each. They have 4 thermistor sensors, an LCD display in the drive bay unit that also houses a hard drive and small fan. I've hooked one up on my HSPC Tech Station, sleeved the lines and can quickly place the sensors anywhere, add power to the unit and good to go.

However, in a personal system, in a case, they are a bit of a nightmare to route the cables. We all strive for a clean look that is devoid of loose cables, ease of access etc, and these 4 extra wires are a royal pain in the *** to manage... dig through them every time you go in the system for something, carefully replace them when finished... they complicate things way more than they are worth. I do have a 3 sensor unit I rigged up as a removable drive bay for easily adding to a system temporarily, and the second CoolDrive is set for the same thing. But I'll not have one permamently in my own system again, it is hard enough to wade through the existing cables. I'd never own a mobo without sensors, so it isn't a problem.
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eVGA 680i SLI (A1) P31
Intel Q6700 Kentsfield | Scythe Ninja-B | Antec Tri-Cool 80cfm
4GB (4x1024MB) Corsair Dominator 8500
boot: 4x WD Caviar SE16 250gb SATA2 Raid-0
backup: Seagate 500gb 32mb SATA2
eye: eVGA 9800GTX+ SC 512mb 770/2.25ghz
candy: Samsung 940B-HAS | X-Fi XMusic | Pioneer DVR-212D SATA
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  #437 (permalink)  
Old December 22, 2007, 05:15 PM
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Ok I redid my case now it looks acceptable but my stupid n93 can't find the pics...
Special thanks to Lilotech...indeed the case is amazing :)
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Last edited by omgwtf; December 22, 2007 at 09:47 PM.
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  #438 (permalink)  
Old December 23, 2007, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by omgwtf View Post
Ok I redid my case now it looks acceptable but my stupid n93 can't find the pics...
Special thanks to Lilotech...indeed the case is amazing :)
My Pleasure!

The TJ04 has implemented some innovative yet simple features that make it an exceptional case to work with, yet are largely hidden or unknown to folks new to the case. It cools really well too!

Hoping you get the pics resolved, looking forward to seeing them.

.
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eVGA 680i SLI (A1) P31
Intel Q6700 Kentsfield | Scythe Ninja-B | Antec Tri-Cool 80cfm
4GB (4x1024MB) Corsair Dominator 8500
boot: 4x WD Caviar SE16 250gb SATA2 Raid-0
backup: Seagate 500gb 32mb SATA2
eye: eVGA 9800GTX+ SC 512mb 770/2.25ghz
candy: Samsung 940B-HAS | X-Fi XMusic | Pioneer DVR-212D SATA
juice: PC Power & Cooling 750Quad | Cooler Master HAF932
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  #439 (permalink)  
Old December 27, 2007, 04:03 AM
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Smile Finally!

Here...finally my pics have arrived.....not the best, but you'll get the idea:





Let me know what you think about this!
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  #440 (permalink)  
Old December 27, 2007, 11:53 AM
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For that kind of money be happy..it looks neat..
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