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Old September 3, 2008, 06:38 AM
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Wow. I do not know how you managed to get that latest piece in there without getting the glue all over the other parts.

I am not quite sure where this gap you need to insulate is.

An air gap is just about the best form of insulation you can get without exotic materials. Radiation will not be much of an issue; I doubt you will put this under a heat lamp or out in the sun. Convection will be minimal in such a small space. While silicone is not very conductive it is still ten times more conductive than air (from what I can Google). If this is going to be a sealed area I would suggest just blasting in some that inert gas you mentioned earlier and seal it. It should be dry and stagnant which will make it a very good insulator.

A vacuum would be better. Is the area structurally sound enough to stand up to some negative pressure?
  #262 (permalink)  
Old September 3, 2008, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Rabbit View Post
Wow. I do not know how you managed to get that latest piece in there without getting the glue all over the other parts.

I am not quite sure where this gap you need to insulate is.

3 beer , a wing , and a prayer.


-----

Seriously though , The glass is smaller than the inside of the tank in 2 dimensions , so getting it in isnt that hard.
This is where the 'gap' comes from tho.
Here's a pic :



Now , the seam between the inner tank and the outer tank will be sealed with a bead of RTV157.....But there is the gap of about 5/8" between the top of the inner tank and the inside top of the outer.There is a similar gap of 3/8" between the back of the inner and the back inside of the outer.

These gaps need to be filled with some sort of insulation.Further to this , the entire aluminum back of the tank needs some sort of insulation , even if it is just a 1/4" thick coat of silicone.

---------

I had considered making this a vacuum wall tank , but I went with the n2 gas blanket idea instead , based on cost.This one would not survive the vacuum.

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  #263 (permalink)  
Old September 3, 2008, 10:28 AM
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That is not the gap I had in mind - that is a huge gap to fill... rectangular rubber extrusion bonded to the case wall?
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  #264 (permalink)  
Old September 3, 2008, 10:33 AM
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That is not the gap I had in mind - that is a huge gap to fill... rectangular rubber extrusion bonded to the case wall?
Yep that's kind of what Im thinking....some sort of iso safe plastic spacer...
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Old September 3, 2008, 10:38 AM
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What you need is some sort of iso safe backer rod. If you're not familiar with backer rod, see here:
Backer Rod

Most of it is made of polyurethane, I think isopropanol would probably eat it?

Edit: Check out the Mile High Foam on the same site, closed cell, chemically inert?

Last edited by SugarJ; September 3, 2008 at 10:44 AM.
  #266 (permalink)  
Old September 3, 2008, 01:59 PM
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couldn't you fill the space between the takes with something like Argon?

I'd imagine you'd be able to get it at any decent SCUBA shop, used for Dry suit diving(don't know how many you have in Calgary lol)
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Old September 3, 2008, 03:08 PM
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Ok. I think I understand the gap you want to insulate. Why do you need to insulate it? Are you worried about frozen condensation, thermal stress, maximum performance, or something else? It seems like a small area that would have minimal effect on the system.

... and just on the off chance... you do have a plan for a bleed hole so the N2 can push out the air between the inner and outer tanks, no?

Also, is the N2 line going to be submerged in the iso when the inner tank gets filled?
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Old September 3, 2008, 07:06 PM
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@SugarJ : actually backer rod /sheet is exactly one of the things I'm considering.

@klaiboi : yes , the space between the two glass tanks will be filled with nitrogen....I can get Argon from my local welding store , but it's waaaay more expensive.

@Jack Rabbit :

I need to insulate it against thermal contraction as much as possible.As the outside tank is glass and aluminum , it's faaar more suceptible to it.The less the cold iso comes into contact with the outer tank , the better.Generally the iso will not even be up that high , but I can't rule out mild splashing.

as far as the 'bleed hole ' : I'll direct you to the second picture on page 25 , you'll notice there are two hoses.I'll be installing the second copper gas line under the last piece of glass.

The bottom gas line will be , at the very least , completely 'potted' with RTV , if not insulated.
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Old September 4, 2008, 04:32 PM
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Oh yea baby !!

After sleeping on it , it donned on me during my morning coffee , that the 2nd gas line can't possibly go in before the glass.

Sooooo ,

The last piece of glass is in !!! It's a done deal.The 'glueing' stages are done.

RTV157 applied ;



------

Last piece in ;



------

Seaming will start Saturday.

I'm about 99% sure I managed to get all the cleanable marks (fingerprints etc) from the seven visible glass surfaces that can never be wiped again.....
--

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Last edited by BrainEater; September 4, 2008 at 04:49 PM.
  #270 (permalink)  
Old September 4, 2008, 05:13 PM
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I love assembly, seeing all those single parts coming together... will you have enough RTV?
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