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Old April 5, 2008, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Original Letter from Creative
Daniel_K:

We are aware that you have been assisting owners of our Creative sound cards for some time now, by providing unofficial driver packages for Vista that deliver more of the original functionality that was found in the equivalent XP packages for those sound cards. In principle we don't have a problem with you helping users in this way, so long as they understand that any driver packages you supply are not supported by Creative. Where we do have a problem is when technology and IP owned by Creative or other companies that Creative has licensed from, are made to run on other products for which they are not intended. We took action to remove your thread because, like you, Creative and its technology partners think it is only fair to be compensated for goods and services. The difference in this case is that we own the rights to the materials that you are distributing. By enabling our technology and IP to run on sound cards for which it was not originally offered or intended, you are in effect, stealing our goods. When you solicit donations for providing packages like this, you are profiting from something that you do not own. If we choose to develop and provide host-based processing features with certain sound cards and not others, that is a business decision that only we have the right to make.

Although you say you have discontinued your practice of distributing unauthorized software packages for Creative sound cards we have seen evidence of them elsewhere along with donation requests from you. We also note in a recent post of yours on these forums, that you appear to be contemplating the release of further packages. To be clear, we are asking you to respect our legal rights in this matter and cease all further unauthorized distribution of our technology and IP. In addition we request that you observe our forum rules and respect our right to enforce those rules. If you are in any doubt as to what we would consider unacceptable then please request clarification through one of our forum moderators before posting.

Phil O'Shaughnessy
VP Corporate Communications
Creative Labs Inc.
I honestly don't understand most of the outcry over this. Yeah, Creative might have handled it a heck of a lot better than they did, but...

The guy was asking for donations.

That's a pretty big distinction that a lot of people seem to want to overlook. The guy is trying to get money for a product that he doesn't own. Maybe Creative's been piss-poor on their driver support, but if incompetent handling of a product was enough to justify copyright infringement, then... well, that'd open a pretty serious bag of worms, right?
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Old April 5, 2008, 11:18 AM
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The problem I have is when some "Joe" actually makes Creative's drivers work they silence him, sure he shouldn't have asked for donations, but IMO this could have played out way better from Creatives stand point.

He states that he needed the donations for product to test on, wouldn't a better solution from Creatives stand point have been to ask the donations to stop ( I agree hes completely in the wrong there) and offer some testing samples?

I just feel that something better could have worked out for us, the users, because with neutered drivers we are the real losers.
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Old April 5, 2008, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by MpG View Post
I honestly don't understand most of the outcry over this. Yeah, Creative might have handled it a heck of a lot better than they did, but...

The guy was asking for donations.

That's a pretty big distinction that a lot of people seem to want to overlook. The guy is trying to get money for a product that he doesn't own. Maybe Creative's been piss-poor on their driver support, but if incompetent handling of a product was enough to justify copyright infringement, then... well, that'd open a pretty serious bag of worms, right?
I agree that he shouldn't have been asking for donations. This however is the kicker......

Quote:
By enabling our technology and IP to run on sound cards for which it was not originally offered or intended, you are in effect, stealing our goods.
We have no intention of offering free support to legacy hardware because we don't care about customers who purchased them, and want them to purchase new products so stop messing with our business model.

AFAIC, the donations bit is mostly a red herring... they were watching this guy and waiting for any chance they could get to shut him down.

Once again it comes down to extremely poor handling by Creative. They may be technically in the right, but this had the potential to completely destroy their customer base for stand-alone sound cards, and last time I checked, they don't have too many other eggs in their basket right now.
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Old April 5, 2008, 12:00 PM
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I have DL a number of software products, gave a few bucks here and there for SOME of them but not all. I have helped people set up computers and they offered me some money or other forms of compensation. Should I send the $5 some one may have gave me for installing windows on someones computer?

DONATION is exactly that, a donation, no obligation and not required payment.

The donations could be to compensate him for his time in helping make their Creative products work, HIS TIME not Creative time. I would hate to see the world of DONATIONS stop because everyone was to scared to donate for something that may be wrong to donate for. In any case I hope this ignorant behavior on Creative's part sinks their ship. I will never buy from Creative again. Hope they go bust.
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Old April 5, 2008, 09:41 PM
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The donation was for him to further his research on the cards, this is not illegal, he was not charging for the software that would of been illegal. In his part of the world any pc product is often triple what we pay or more...
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Old April 5, 2008, 10:26 PM
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I don't see anything wrong with his asking for donations. It's not mandatory. He's modded the drivers for the products that he uses. People are asking him to spend HIS money to get access to other cards and HIS time to mod for products and features he won't use himself. I don't think he's in the wrong for asking for donations to do this. What he did do wrong is enabling creative software to work for non-creative sound cards.
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Old April 6, 2008, 12:12 AM
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The whole donation thing is completely and utterly retarded and blown out of proportion.

It wasn't that he was looking for donations for the product he was looking for donations to BUY a product.

And in that sense he was in the absolute right and Creative was in the wrong.

If he was asking for donations to create the software and distribute it, then yes he was doing something wrong.

Things don't come cheap to everyone.
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Old April 6, 2008, 04:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enaberif View Post
The whole donation thing is completely and utterly retarded and blown out of proportion.

It wasn't that he was looking for donations for the product he was looking for donations to BUY a product.

And in that sense he was in the absolute right and Creative was in the wrong.

If he was asking for donations to create the software and distribute it, then yes he was doing something wrong.

Things don't come cheap to everyone.
Then again the donations is a side issue... meant for people to debate it.. the real issue is that he made drivers for x-fi and audigy, when he discovered issues with them in vista... then again vista sucks .when he made the features work, this po-ed creative thus they sicked the dogs on him to stop his work.

Quote:
Creative purposedly modified the Audigy drivers to disable some features when Vista is detected and also purposedly introduced some bugs to prevent some XP utilities from running.
Quote:
They purposedly ruined the Live! support in Vista: 2.1 speakers setting resulted in distorted sound.
After some investigation, I discovered the culprit module and replaced it with one from the last XP version and the problem was fixed.
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Old April 7, 2008, 06:07 AM
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How is he wrong if creative said these products are vista compatible, don't operate as advertised, and then are not even supported to fix these issues?

I think they are embarrassed that some schmo in Brazil fixed their products. Pathetic.

As for the donations issue, until it can be proven what he was using the donations for, I'm not going to say either way. He could have said one thing and do the other, we simply don't know.

That aside, he did some good work for many people and should be commended for simply trying to make a good product better. I think the stealing aspect comes from the fact that he bought products to get the "paid-for" drivers, reprogrammed them and offered free drivers to people who would have otherwise needed to pay for them. I'm not well versed in the details, but thats a pretty serious thing to do, even if it was to make products run better.

Before I get flamed, I think he was right for what he did, but it may not make it any more legal, necessarily.
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Old April 7, 2008, 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr. Cipher View Post
How is he wrong if creative said these products are vista compatible, don't operate as advertised, and then are not even supported to fix these issues?

I think they are embarrassed that some schmo in Brazil fixed their products. Pathetic.

As for the donations issue, until it can be proven what he was using the donations for, I'm not going to say either way. He could have said one thing and do the other, we simply don't know.

That aside, he did some good work for many people and should be commended for simply trying to make a good product better. I think the stealing aspect comes from the fact that he bought products to get the "paid-for" drivers, reprogrammed them and offered free drivers to people who would have otherwise needed to pay for them. I'm not well versed in the details, but thats a pretty serious thing to do, even if it was to make products run better.

Before I get flamed, I think he was right for what he did, but it may not make it any more legal, necessarily.
Well so far so good after the debacle everywhere and the lid being blown of the drivers issues.... creative retracted and reinstated Daniels drivers... but Daniel is to poed to deal with creative anymore... he is going to deal with other companies from what the post says.. they also reinstated the drivers on their forums...


My goodbye message to all supporters with some clarification and links to my drivers - Windows Vista - Creative Labs
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