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Old August 15, 2008, 09:43 PM
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Default please explain about this reviews

i want to know about both zm-f3 and p12... and try to compare those fans and i am little lost...


can you please look at review that i already visited... its little hard for me understand

X-bit labs - Roundup: 11 Fans for Two Super-Coolers and One System Case (page 14)

i found it little strange... i dont know why Ultra 120 didn't do good job...

XS Fan reviews
XS Fan reviews, part 2
XS Mini-review (Contains P12 data)

i really cant compare vapor's reviews and why is it important show the result about cfm vs sound... i also want to know which is most cooler...

if you know another review about zm-f3 then please post a link...


thanks
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Old August 16, 2008, 05:47 PM
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If I'm way off the mark about explaining, feel free to let me know. Your questions are a little open-ended, so hopefully I'll hit the answer at some point. In the X-Bit test, using the same heatsink and heatload, a bunch of different fans are attached to it and made to try and handle cooling duties. Some do better, some do poorer, but the faster fans don't necessarily do a better job, and the slower fans aren't automatically quieter.

To look at your two fans, take a look at the the ZM-F3(~1840rpm) and the Noctua P12 (~1350rpm). Under those test conditions, the Zalman is bringing the temperature of the processor down by two more degrees under load (73 vs 71 degrees).

BUT, the Zalman also happens to be spinning about 500rpm higher (only a small difference really). It can be reasonably assumed that by spinning 500rpm slower, the Noctua will be a quieter fan. And sure enough, looking at the acoustic measurements on page 17, the Zalman is quite noticeably quieter (btw, I own both fans, the Noctua P12 is MUCH quieter). In exchange for that quietness, you give up 2 degrees - can you afford it? (Hint: Probably)

-I'll see if I can explain Vapor's testing in my next post.
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Old August 16, 2008, 05:53 PM
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Various things influence different factors.

For example the heatsink used; compared the fin spacing of a ninja to a true 120.

Second theres 4 things about a fan that people don't take into consideration: speed, static pressure, rpm, and dba.

Now you could have a fan that spins at 500 rpm and will be dead quiet but the static pressure maybe low and in that case it won't work well for a heatsink like the True due to the spacing of the fins. But that same low speed fan will work good for the ninja because the small amount of air can travel easily through it.

So now take a fan like the Kaze thats 3000 rpm and is like 60dB in noise and has like 120cfm. Take this fan and put it against the Ninja or the True and it will work good but what you may find is that with this fan at full speed it will be less noisy on the Ninja because air is being pushed BACK into the fan creating extra noise where with the smaller and closer fins of the True 120 the air gets pushed back into the fan as it can get through the fins fast enough and creates extra noise.

This is why large fans like the Kaze, Panaflos and San Aces are GREAT to use in situations where they get down volted to 7v as they spin slower but still push lots of air and can keep the noise down and work well for a Ninja or True.

That help understanding?
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Old August 16, 2008, 06:17 PM
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mpg

xbit didn't show clearly... i mean zm-f3's best result is max rpm at 40/71 degree... compare to p12's best middle noise at 40/73 degree... i believe load is more important (durning play games or use programs) BUT what about constantly speed and cooling?

i believe 2 degree is worth if its still quiet... as almost as p12... and cheaper...

my question is probably little too general...i just want to know which is suitable for cpu cooler and case... i just need "almost" prefect or best for my black true and cm690... if better than zm-f3 or p12 in good cfm and little quiet (that didn't bother other or shake the case) then please let tell me...


enaberif

interesting information

and i re-read my first post... i have no idea why i said about thermalright ultra 120... sorry i must mistook this test as other one...
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Old August 16, 2008, 06:19 PM
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It basically comes down to where you want the fan in your case and what the fan is for.

If you want to move air through your case like say a exhaust fan you want a fan that moves a ton of air.
For a fan for the front of your case you may need a fan with high static pressure to get the air through areas that are blocked by things like fan grills or hdds.
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Old August 16, 2008, 06:48 PM
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yes... thats why i am asking for between p12 and zm-f3... i think about zm-f3 fans... i mean what do i should use fan for my black true... and my cm 690 case?

hwc review only show result of cpu cooler... not case...
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OLD: cm 690, hx620, intel q9450, True Black, ga-ep45-ud3p, 2gbx2 ram of mushkin xp2 8500, xfx 285. wd caviar se16 640gb, 4x zm-f3 fans.
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Old August 16, 2008, 06:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CTA View Post
yes... thats why i am asking for between p12 and zm-f3... i think about zm-f3 fans... i mean what do i should use fan for my black true... and my cm 690 case?

hwc review only show result of cpu cooler... not case...
For the True Black you want a fan with lots of static pressure to be able to push air through the fins.

For the 690 you could use the ZM-F3 on the rear, top and bottom of the case and quite possibly even the front.
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Old August 16, 2008, 07:09 PM
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so which fan do you recommend for true black (damn i misspelled it)

i thought case need good high static pressure fan like cpu (i mean you use zm-f3 for case... so is it better than p12?)

<< recently heard that you are expert... :rollseye:
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OLD: cm 690, hx620, intel q9450, True Black, ga-ep45-ud3p, 2gbx2 ram of mushkin xp2 8500, xfx 285. wd caviar se16 640gb, 4x zm-f3 fans.
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Old August 16, 2008, 07:17 PM
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To start with, a few basic points:

1. Not all fans are equal.
2. Two fans spinning at the same speed don't necessarily move the same amount of air.
3. Two fans spinning at the same speed don't necessarily make the same amount of noise.
4. Therefore, two fans making the same amount of noise aren't necessarily moving the same amount of air.
5. When a fan is forced to push air through a restriction, such as a heatsink or radiator, the airflow will drop. BUT, the amount of airflow drop will vary by the fan.
6. When undervolted, fans spin slower, move less air, and make less noise. BUT, not necessarily in a linear fashion.
7. Lastly, the noise/airflow ratings giving by fan manufacturers, with a few very, VERY rare exceptions, are COMPLETELY UNTRUSTWORTHY.

Having said all that, if you're concerned about fan noise, it's in your best interest to try and pick a fan that moves more air while making less noise. And if you're concerned about fan noise on a heatsink, it's also in your best interest to try and pick a fan that handles restrictions very well. Vapor's testing results, while a little complicated, are a good way to get a handle on all these points. Despite that, he's not omnipotent, he's never claimed to be, and his testing results are simply one batch of results. If you're serious about picking good fans, don't stop at only one source of testing.

Looking at Vapor's graphs, each fan is tested at a variety of voltages, with the noise and airflow measured at each point, to create a mark on the graph. The exact position of the mark depends on the noise and airflow created.

The (decibel) measurement is along the horizontal (X-) axis. The further to the right the mark is, the louder the fan was. The airflow measurement is along the vertical (Y-) axis. The further up the mark is, the more air it moved in that instance. A mark in the lower right-hand corner would be a situation where the fan made a lot of noise, and hardly moved any air. In other words, junk. A mark in the upper left-hand corner would be a situation where the fan hardly made any noise, but moved LOTS of air. In other words, kick-ass. The fact that no marks can be found in that location is a hint that the "perfect fan" probably doesn't actually exist.

What you're looking for in these graphs is a line of marks that travels UP (airflow) as quickly as possible, while traveling LEFT (noise) as slowly as possible. Unfortunately for comparing the ZM-F3 and the P12, at 1800rpm and 1300rpm rated, they're in completely different classes of performance and noise. However, you can still learn a few things.

Firstly, the Zalman fan puts on a great showing (Part 2, medium speed graphs). Looking at that orange line with triangle markers, it's consistently ABOVE and to the RIGHT of most of the competition. That is, at the same noise level, it's moving more air. Or conversely, at the same airflow, it's not making as much noise.

Secondly, the P12 puts on a decent performance (Mini-Review), but not top of the line. It's open-air performance edges out most of the other fans it's put against, but when put up against a radiator, it loses a little more than some of the others, such as the PTS Yate Loons and the S-Flex fans.

Ultimately, they're both good fans, but it depends on your noise requirements. If you don't mind an 1800-rpm fan, the Zalman would be a good choice by these tests. But if you want something even quieter, the Noctua's would also be a good choice. But if you're going to put the fan on a heatsink, Scythe's S-Flex series also bears looking at, and are easy to find.

Bear in mind again, this is only one set of tests. While they bear out with general experience, there are other tests that show the Noctua's beating out the S-Flex's.
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Old August 16, 2008, 07:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CTA View Post
so which fan do you recommend for true black (damn i misspelled it)

i thought case need good high static pressure fan like cpu (i mean you use zm-f3 for case... so is it better than p12?)

<< recently heard that you are expert... :rollseye:
Myself I like the Scythe Kaze or Panaflo volted down to 7v for my cpu fan.

For case fans I'd use Yate Loons or Scythe S-Flex fans as they are both good.
Zalman fans have been recently shown to be quite a contender for a inexpensive that works well.

Cases don't need high static pressure fans as static pressure is what allows air to travel through tight spots easier.

Static pressure is what torque is to a truck; the more torque the easier through the mud.
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