Go Back   Hardware Canucks > CASES & COOLING > Air Cooling

    
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11 (permalink)  
Old March 10, 2008, 04:55 AM
Mr. Cipher's Avatar
MVP
F@H
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: London (UK)
Posts: 458
Default

You were monitoring the temps, core and mem clock of your GPU, not your CPU if I read correctly, right?

Nice comparison by the way. Now if you have a dremel and cut some holes so you can stick some of those wires in behind the mobo tray, imagine your temps with even better airflow! If you already have one, its a free mod.
__________________
i7 Red
EVGA X58 Classy | i7 920 D0 | Megahalems w. 1 noctua push| Mushkin Redline | Radeon HD 6870 | 2x640 WD Black | Corsair HX1000 | HAF 932 | Asus 26" LCD

C2Q Blue
Gigabyte EP45-UD3p | Q8400 @ 2.66ghz | Thermalright Ultra 120 Extreme w. Scythe | Mushkin Redline PC2-8000 5-5-5-15-2T @ 400mhz |
BFG GTX 295 | 1.32TB WD HDDs | Corsair HX 620 W | Antec 900 | Acer 20" LCD
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old March 10, 2008, 05:51 AM
MVP
F@H
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Halifax, N.S.
Posts: 498
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Cipher View Post
You were monitoring the temps, core and mem clock of your GPU, not your CPU if I read correctly, right?

Nice comparison by the way. Now if you have a dremel and cut some holes so you can stick some of those wires in behind the mobo tray, imagine your temps with even better airflow! If you already have one, its a free mod.



That is correct. I am sort of disappointed in myself for not doing a more expanded test at the time but when I started this it was only a test to answer a GPU temp question for another HWC member. Then is just grew from there. I doubt very much if you would see as wide a difference for the CPU, in fact I am fairly sure of it as I was running speed fan at the same time and did not notice any drastic temp diffs. They were higher but not as much. I will add the HDD temps were almost double as well. In my Antec case with the front fans blowing across the HDDs they sit at about 25 deg C, in the Budget case they are closer to 40 degC.

So in a nut shell everything in the Case environment will increase, how much and to what degree depends on the components.

If you are in a situation like my budget case, and the ambient environment temperature of the inside of your case is 40Deg C and no airflow, you will never get below ambient, in fact you will basically have an oven, circulating warm air through your components, making the ambient temperature rise even further, and further...


As far as the holes with the dremel, I will be doing that at a later date in my ongoing test of this "budget case", next step is adding some cheapy fans to actually get some airflow, right now I have nothing but stagnant hot air in the case. I am certain as soon as I add some fans and draw outside room temps of 20 deg C into the case we will see some major benefits.
__________________
RIG #1 - Intel E8400 // TRU-X 120 w noctua NF-P12 // GA-X38-DQ6 // GTX285 OC // 8g Ram OCZ Fatal1ty PC8500 // X-Fi Elite Pro sound // z-5500 speakers // OCZ 850w Gamer XTream PSU // WD Raptor 150g // Seagate 1Tb // 2xSeagate 500g ex// Logitec G-15 keyboard // Vista Ultimate 64bit
RIG #2 - AMD64 3500+ // Asus A8N-E // 8800GTS 512 OC // Enermax Liberty SLI 500W Modular PSU // WD Caviar 250g

Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old March 10, 2008, 02:20 PM
MVP
F@H
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Halifax, N.S.
Posts: 498
Default Time to Mod the Budget Case

Well after visiting with SSWilson - (AKA SantaWilson) I now have everything I need to mod the budget case and see what effect adding some fans to a real poor performing budget case will make.

Gifted items from SantaWilson for this case Budget case mod project include 5*80mm fans from of various brands, 1*120 Coolermaster fan and an Acrylic Window kit for the side panel. To top it off for good measure he also threw in a SilverStone NT06 heat sink and 120mm fan to cap it all off.

Now it is time for me to dig out the hole saw and dremmel and get to work and see how modding a case to improve airflow and enhance cooling. I am certain we will see a marked improvement but only time will tell how much it will improve, is it cost effective if one had to buy all new fans, would it be cheaper in the long run to buy a good case, is all the effort really worth it and how bad can I pouch this entire project up.

Well here is the pic of the goodies that will be added to the case,

2*80mm fans in the fron case
2*80mm fans in the rear case
1*120mm fan exhausting the top of the case

I may also add a 120mm fan to the side panel and find another location for the last 80mm fan (TBA)
Attached Images
 
__________________
RIG #1 - Intel E8400 // TRU-X 120 w noctua NF-P12 // GA-X38-DQ6 // GTX285 OC // 8g Ram OCZ Fatal1ty PC8500 // X-Fi Elite Pro sound // z-5500 speakers // OCZ 850w Gamer XTream PSU // WD Raptor 150g // Seagate 1Tb // 2xSeagate 500g ex// Logitec G-15 keyboard // Vista Ultimate 64bit
RIG #2 - AMD64 3500+ // Asus A8N-E // 8800GTS 512 OC // Enermax Liberty SLI 500W Modular PSU // WD Caviar 250g

Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old March 10, 2008, 02:43 PM
ebdoradz's Avatar
Allstar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Rouyn-Noranda, QC
Posts: 754
Default

i would personnaly cut fropnt and rear then do the test

then cut the top ands redo, just to show ppl that front and rear fan can be benifit and that the top on isnt as necessairy has the Front/rear fan

if you need a couple of 80 mm wire grill or other stuff let me kno wi have a couple of those laying around here..
__________________
Gigabyte GA-MA790XT-UD4P / AMD Phenom II x3 720BE @ x4/ Crucial Ballistic DDR3 / Sapphire 4830 512mb / Corsair 620W PSU / 2*80GB Seagate

DFI LP nF4 Ultra-D / AMD Opteron 165 @ 2.7Ghz/ 2*1GB OCZ Gold GX XTC / Sapphire X1950XT / Fortron 450W PSU / 2*Maxtor 80Gb


Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old March 10, 2008, 08:12 PM
MVP
F@H
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Halifax, N.S.
Posts: 498
Default

DUE TO user interface error I need to restart the second batch of tests. Disregard all original test results carried out in the"Budget Case".

More Detail to follow.
__________________
RIG #1 - Intel E8400 // TRU-X 120 w noctua NF-P12 // GA-X38-DQ6 // GTX285 OC // 8g Ram OCZ Fatal1ty PC8500 // X-Fi Elite Pro sound // z-5500 speakers // OCZ 850w Gamer XTream PSU // WD Raptor 150g // Seagate 1Tb // 2xSeagate 500g ex// Logitec G-15 keyboard // Vista Ultimate 64bit
RIG #2 - AMD64 3500+ // Asus A8N-E // 8800GTS 512 OC // Enermax Liberty SLI 500W Modular PSU // WD Caviar 250g

Reply With Quote
  #16 (permalink)  
Old March 11, 2008, 01:59 AM
sswilson's Avatar
Moderator
F@H
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Moncton NB
Posts: 14,636

My System Specs

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CasheKicker View Post
DUE TO user interface error I need to restart the second batch of tests. Disregard all original test results carried out in the"Budget Case".

More Detail to follow.
Heh.... Sounds like somebody had a visit from the benchmark gremlins......

C'mon.... fess up!!!! :)
__________________
MSI Z87I Gaming AC / i7 4770K / 2X 4G Gskill 1866 DDR3 / XFX XTR 750 / EVGA GTX 680 SC+ 2GB / Intel DC S3700 200G / random 160G Sata HDD
Inwin 904 / Swiftech MCP655-b / Alphacool NexXxos XT45 120 Rad / 2X Scythe GT AP-15 / EK Supreme HF / Dell UltraSharp U2412M

Asrock AM1H-ITX / AM1 Athlon 5350 / 2X4G Gskill PC3-14900 / Intel 6235 Wi-Fi / 90W Targus Power Brick / 320G Seagate Momentus / Mini-Box M350 / 1X 22" Dell IPS / 1X 22" HP
Reply With Quote
  #17 (permalink)  
Old March 14, 2008, 04:44 AM
MVP
F@H
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Halifax, N.S.
Posts: 498
Default

OK so I am sure many of you are wondering WTF...

Well as I alluded to here http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/video-cards/5032-heat-issue.html#post46000, I experienced a serious Noobie moment.

Fortunately my pride is not to big to admit my mistakes or the fact I am green around the gills when it comes to building computers. I do accept "partial responsibility" however, I also lay partial blame to the service provider that originally built up my AMD 3500+ system years ago. To explin here is the Cole's notes version of my rigs history :

When originally purchased I bought a AMD 3500+ on a Asus A8N-E with a Radeon x850xt GPU in my budget case. All built up by the very reputable store where it was purchased. Never really having a (at the time) high end system like this before I was not aware of many factors in the way such a system operates. When ever I got into gaming, Day of Defeat Source, I would constantly experience over temp conditions :help:, to resolve this I would have to take my common house fan on high settings remove my side panel and blow it directly into the case. Of course this was unacceptable , so, I went to my PC supplier and purchased a new case and power supply (Antec 900) to gain better cooling properties, which they transferred my rig into for free of course. Naturally I never had overtemp problems again.

In prep to build my new E8400 rig I needed to get the 3500+ rig moved over into the old case so I could build up the new rig in the Antec 900. Of course I was once again haunted by over temp conditions when the GPU was under load.

So, as indicated in my previous posts I started to mod my Budget case to improve airflow and cooling properties. I was shocked to see very little improvement which forced me to look deeper into the problem. After much time pondering, touching, feeling airflow I noticed something quite alarming...

Both the x850xt and x1950xt uses two of rear case slots, one to actually place the GPU in and the second to allow the GPUs cooler to vent air out rthe back of the case. Prior to the x850xt I had never seen such a card and did not know this is how they operated, I just assumed that when my supplier built the case, he did so to specs. However, the little removable tab on the back of the case below the PCIe slot, you know the ones you have to remove before installing new hardware, that would have allowed the GPU cooler to vent air was still attached to the case. Thereby blocking the hot air from the GPU, causing backpressure of the cooler and creating a convection oven inside the GPU itself. Instead of cooling the GPU with fresh air and venting the hot out the back, it simply keep reheating its own hot air. This resulted in GPU over temp conditions in about 5 min under load. I consider my self VERY lucky that I did not cause damage to my GPUs, both the x850xt and the x1950xt. Whew

So I do accept some responsibility for not recognising this when swapping cases but also give partial blame to my service provider who originally built up the rig in the old case a few years ago.

That being said I have already made some extensive mods to the budget case and continuing with the test will not be 100% representative of the cases original config, but I will, when time permits, continue the test the best I can.

All I can say at this point is "DUH"!!!
__________________
RIG #1 - Intel E8400 // TRU-X 120 w noctua NF-P12 // GA-X38-DQ6 // GTX285 OC // 8g Ram OCZ Fatal1ty PC8500 // X-Fi Elite Pro sound // z-5500 speakers // OCZ 850w Gamer XTream PSU // WD Raptor 150g // Seagate 1Tb // 2xSeagate 500g ex// Logitec G-15 keyboard // Vista Ultimate 64bit
RIG #2 - AMD64 3500+ // Asus A8N-E // 8800GTS 512 OC // Enermax Liberty SLI 500W Modular PSU // WD Caviar 250g

Reply With Quote
  #18 (permalink)  
Old March 14, 2008, 06:24 AM
Babrbarossa's Avatar
Hall Of Fame
F@H
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: New Brunswick
Posts: 3,673

My System Specs

Default

You are perfectly entitled to give 100% of the blame to the builder- they absolutely have to be experts. I'd make a point of going in and telling the manager what they did.
Reply With Quote
  #19 (permalink)  
Old March 14, 2008, 09:30 AM
low351's Avatar
Top Prospect
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 200

My System Specs

Default

I feel for you bro, it's amazing what you can miss when your mind is of single intent. I built my entire CM690 system all the while bitching about the fact that they didn't include any screws... Only to realize afterwards while looking at a picture I took, they are all there, screwed in along the 5-1/4 drive bays...
__________________

Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Lian Li PC-C32; Enough cooling/airflow? Nate_The_Great Cases 3 October 3, 2008 11:19 AM
Air Cooling - Case pressure mattydies Air Cooling 4 December 18, 2007 09:30 PM
dose the length of warranty really matter to u? cmhyt Video Cards 7 December 17, 2007 06:57 AM
Mid-tower water-cooling case? 3.0charlie Cases 13 October 31, 2007 06:07 PM
mesh for case cooling magictorch Water Cooling 2 September 18, 2007 04:12 PM