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Old February 2, 2011, 10:45 PM
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Default 120mm fan (for cpu) chart?

I believe someone posted a 120mm fan chart which showed comparisons of noise and cfm. Anyone know what I'm talking about? LOL! I forget who it was but I thought it was interesting and I'm looking for a fan that is good for the heatsink.

I read that it's cfm that is crucial and not so much static pressure (more important for case cooling?)?

Anyway, I'm wondering if Yate Loons or equivalent is sufficient for a cpu fan. However, I'm leaning towards a Scythe S-Flex E or F (SFF21E/F) They're $10 and $12, respectively. I can't find any suitable fans for $5-ish and I need to take shipping into consideration, too. I prefer the Noctuas but kinda pricy with shipping.

Thanks in advance to anyone who posts the chart or can direct me to a link where I can get it.
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Old February 3, 2011, 05:29 AM
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Alas anyone who has said it is CFM that is more important than static pressure for a CPU cooling fan is wrong.

CFM is volume, and Static Pressure is the force. So if you have a heatsink that has dense fin array, but a low pressure fan, it is not going to put anywhere near the volume of air its rated for through the fins.

There has to be a balance really. There are rare cases where a heatsink has very 'loose' spacing for its fins and in those cases low pressure fans work wonders.

That being said there are Yate Loons that do the job well, but if its a standard dense heatsink I would suggest Coolermaster Blademasters or R4's in place of them.

Personally speaking DBA ratings are subjective.
A fan can make varying noises depending on where it is mounted, and how.
I've worked with so many fans now I have lost count, I just don't have the resources to pull a chart together myself. and a lot of the ratings out there are subjective to the individiual (noise) so I find that hard to quantify.

ST
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Old February 3, 2011, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Soultribunal View Post
Alas anyone who has said it is CFM that is more important than static pressure for a CPU cooling fan is wrong.

CFM is volume, and Static Pressure is the force. So if you have a heatsink that has dense fin array, but a low pressure fan, it is not going to put anywhere near the volume of air its rated for through the fins.

There has to be a balance really. There are rare cases where a heatsink has very 'loose' spacing for its fins and in those cases low pressure fans work wonders.

That being said there are Yate Loons that do the job well, but if its a standard dense heatsink I would suggest Coolermaster Blademasters or R4's in place of them.

Personally speaking DBA ratings are subjective.
A fan can make varying noises depending on where it is mounted, and how.
I've worked with so many fans now I have lost count, I just don't have the resources to pull a chart together myself. and a lot of the ratings out there are subjective to the individiual (noise) so I find that hard to quantify.

ST
Thanks for the reply, ST.

I definitely don't profess to know the science of these topics. What you say makes sense. I would be inclined to think that you need the static pressure to get through the fins of the heatsink and get to the cpu.

I like quiet fans for the case so a higher DBA isn't really an issue for the cpu fan, I think. But, there are so many fans out there and they are usually rated or assessed based on their utility as a case fan. That is, unless one is comparing cpu coolers and fans (although, some companies might include a cheap fan to save costs?).

I read a few discussions in other forums or sites but one link I'll include had some participants that seemed to conclude the static pressure wasn't as crucial. Ironically enough, there was a chart posted but it isn't the one I thought I noticed posted here.

Best 120mm fan for CPU Cooler for static pressure/CFM? - Page 2 - Overclock.net - Overclocking.net

The Well Dressed Megahalems - 65 fans and 112 setups (56k warning) - Overclock.net - Overclocking.net

What do you think?

I am wondering which R4 you recommend. There seems to be a few varieties and one has the colorful LEDs although I found that R4 model for $5 so it's tempting. Does it matter which color or model? :) The Blademaster I haven't heard of it before now but at least it looks standard but no cheaper than other comparable fans?

Which CM R4 would be sufficient for a cpu fan? Thanks.
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Old February 3, 2011, 10:27 AM
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Static pressure is ALWAYS the first to look for over CFM.

CFM is a good idea of how much air you could get from the back of your case to the front.

I've gone some Delta fans that move like 120CFM of air but they sound like a jet airliner and could move air 6-7" away from the fan.
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Old February 3, 2011, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Borg View Post
Thanks for the reply, ST.

I definitely don't profess to know the science of these topics. What you say makes sense. I would be inclined to think that you need the static pressure to get through the fins of the heatsink and get to the cpu.

I like quiet fans for the case so a higher DBA isn't really an issue for the cpu fan, I think. But, there are so many fans out there and they are usually rated or assessed based on their utility as a case fan. That is, unless one is comparing cpu coolers and fans (although, some companies might include a cheap fan to save costs?).

I read a few discussions in other forums or sites but one link I'll include had some participants that seemed to conclude the static pressure wasn't as crucial. Ironically enough, there was a chart posted but it isn't the one I thought I noticed posted here.

Best 120mm fan for CPU Cooler for static pressure/CFM? - Page 2 - Overclock.net - Overclocking.net

The Well Dressed Megahalems - 65 fans and 112 setups (56k warning) - Overclock.net - Overclocking.net

What do you think?

I am wondering which R4 you recommend. There seems to be a few varieties and one has the colorful LEDs although I found that R4 model for $5 so it's tempting. Does it matter which color or model? :) The Blademaster I haven't heard of it before now but at least it looks standard but no cheaper than other comparable fans?

Which CM R4 would be sufficient for a cpu fan? Thanks.

I don't profess to be an expert either , but most people know me around here to be the actual guy to grab one of each fan type just for the sake of testing it real-world.
Hence the massive collection.

The Coolermaster R4 is this one here NCIX.com - Buy Coolermaster R4-L2R-20AC 120MM Blue LED Case Fan 2000RPM 69CFM 19DBA 3/4 Pin - R4-L2R-20AC-GP In Canada.

They are a very solid fan so long as you mount them in the right spot. Rated for 69CFM (tested this at 63CFM) and 2.92mm h20 for static pressure. To give you a comparable idea, when tested against an Aerocool Xtreme Turbine, which is rated for 90CFM and only 0.82mm H20 the R4 comes out on top.

Using an R4 is okay for a case, but not ideal on its sidepanel or any hard mounting point (Using rubber grommets will offset some of the noise). On a Radiator or heatsink it is idea because the blade design is actually very apt for 'pushing' air through a fin array.

The blademasters might look ordinary, but they are one step beside/above the R4. Generally speaking they are a little quieter and 'undervolt better'. however at their full rated 2000RPM they can kick out 3.90mm H20 static pressure, which is a good improvment over the R4.

Other good alternatives would be Gelid Wing 12PL, Scythe Gentle Typhoon (if you want quieter solution).

you could always get a little crazy and strap a San Ace, Panflo, or Delta to it as well in the extreme, but those are loud.

Hope that helps a bit,

ST
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Old February 4, 2011, 05:18 PM
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Yes, that helps, thanks.

One thing about the R4s, though. It might be just my paranoia, but it seems there's quite a few reports of the R4 fans failing and collecting a lot of dust, on newegg. I'm sure newegg reviews are to be taken with a grain of salt, sometimes, but with all the fans out there, there are bound to be some that probably don't have the best QC.

I am narrowing it down to this:
* Coolermaster R4 - PM @ $5
* Coolermaster Blademaster $10
* Yate Loon PM @ $4

It seems the 'Gentle Typhoon' is too expensive and is often out of stock or it would have been my choice.

Any comments on the above choices? I was wondering which is the 'best deal.'

P.S. I thought I should go with a push-pull configuration. I can achieve that by placing the fan on the side of the heatsink facing the exhaust port? There's currently a 120mm fan there.
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Old February 4, 2011, 06:25 PM
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All fans, can be damaged in shipping more easily than you think. Not to mention typical sleeve bearing fans are typically of lower quality and aren't meant to last much more than 3-5 years. (which is still a long time for a $5 product) But they're a lot cheaper and naturally tend to have significantly lower bearing noise than ball bearings. I wouldn't worry too much about DOA rates if you're buying from a good retailer or you're buying a known brand.

My vote goes to 2x R4's in push/pull with undervolting/fan controller, the Blademasters aren't worth double the price IMO. (their only advantage is PWM) At that price point I would be looking at Gelid Wing's, Silverstone Air Penetrators, and Scythe Gentle Typhoons. (all ~$10-$13) Which one would depend on your heatsink, due to strengths and weaknesses of each design which I won't get into. (I'd end up starting a big text wall like ST did)

I would only consider Yates as a reference fan, they really aren't anything great, they just come dirt cheap and perform adequately in all departments.
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Old February 4, 2011, 09:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilya View Post
All fans, can be damaged in shipping more easily than you think. Not to mention typical sleeve bearing fans are typically of lower quality and aren't meant to last much more than 3-5 years. (which is still a long time for a $5 product) But they're a lot cheaper and naturally tend to have significantly lower bearing noise than ball bearings. I wouldn't worry too much about DOA rates if you're buying from a good retailer or you're buying a known brand.

My vote goes to 2x R4's in push/pull with undervolting/fan controller, the Blademasters aren't worth double the price IMO. (their only advantage is PWM) At that price point I would be looking at Gelid Wing's, Silverstone Air Penetrators, and Scythe Gentle Typhoons. (all ~$10-$13) Which one would depend on your heatsink, due to strengths and weaknesses of each design which I won't get into. (I'd end up starting a big text wall like ST did)

I would only consider Yates as a reference fan, they really aren't anything great, they just come dirt cheap and perform adequately in all departments.

Oh I know you could get into things like loose fins vs Dense fins in which low pressure fans can sometimes do much better etc etc. Big Text wall, I've played with so many its scary.

I've purchased 40+ R4's , out of that lot I've had 5 Failures (3 had noisy bearings either right away or shortly after install, 2 just had an LED out) but for the cost the performance balance you get is worth it. And, NCIX holds the 1 Year total warranty on these fans. So, that being said if one is bad they will pay the shipping to you, and back. What more can you ask for really?

Push pull is idea. And if wired to a Fan Controller make the 'Pull Fan' work a little better than the 'Push Fan' So that way you avoid eddies inside the HS itself (sounds wierd, but I messed around with a smoke stick once and you'd be suprised what I found).

The only point I will disagree with is the Blademasters being not worth the money. On a Dense Heatsink they work almost as good as the V6 GT's Fans do.
And their statistics have a place in truth, they do work better. But again, its all down to cost.

My Thoughts,
ST
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Old February 4, 2011, 10:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Soultribunal View Post
Push pull is idea. And if wired to a Fan Controller make the 'Pull Fan' work a little better than the 'Push Fan' So that way you avoid eddies inside the HS itself (sounds wierd, but I messed around with a smoke stick once and you'd be suprised what I found).
I can't believe something I've been trying to figure for such a long time has just been randomly solved by ST. Probably without him knowing too.

I've actually been trying to figure out how to work out the push/pull on my Megahalems and never thought about making the pull fan faster. Due to its heatsink design, those "eddies" sometimes manifest as a very high pitch whistling/vibration, I'd guess it's around dog whistle range frequency since most people I've asked can't hear it. I tried all sorts of RPM on the pull fan while keeping the push fan at a higher RPM, thinking I would need it to avoid low pressure zones in the fin array, never bothered to try the other way around.
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Old February 20, 2011, 10:13 PM
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I can PM Coolermaster R4s for about $5 and change or Coolermaster BladeMasters (R4 is in the name, too????!?) for a bit more, almost $8. Which should I get? Also, should I get a fan controller? I'm wondering if I should get two fans for the heatsink so that I'd have push-pull? The mobo has a 1x4 pin for the CPU so how would I use more than one fan? I am feeling I probably have to buy a hardware-based fan controller but does that allow adding more fans or is strictly a controller for the fan speed?

I'm not used to having so many fans in my pc so I'm a bit confused at the moment. :)

I have a couple of fans in the intake and the exhaust has a fan, too. I believe the mobo has 3x 3 pin for case fans so the spots for fans are all used up now. What do I have to do to add more fans so that I can have at least one or even two heatsink/cpu fans?

If I get a fan controller, what options do I have then and which one do you (or anyone) recommend?

I'm just trying to figure this out before I order because I need to buy a rechargeable battery charger, too, and thought one at NCIX looked good. However, 'being undecided and unsure about the fan-based hardware has me a bit puzzled and still looking. :)
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