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Old April 30, 2010, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by m1dget View Post
Putting Microsoft and innovation in the same sentence is an oxymoron. It's like their product "Microsoft Works", it just don't make any sense.

IE I have only two thing to say: pure crap and anti-trust lawsuit

a) Apple's hardware is not expensive, the machine itself is. You don't buy parts but a package, like a car (I'm not starting a debate on that... see other thread for my explanation)

b) code for a smaller group? That makes -no- but --no-- sense at all. You seriously think that coding every damn application/kernel/driver(in the past)/GUI/etc would be easier because they don't have a 'lot' of computers? PURE non-sense. You seriously got to get a clue from the nearest programmer to you man

c)MS on so much hardware? *facepalm* -This- is a lot of hardware Hardware Supported by NetBSD, not Windows or any crap they attempted at supporting. Just install XP or about any OS they did and see what they support out of the box (I smell yellow exclamation mark from here ).
And if I can push a bit more, they are one of the reason we are about 5-10 years behind in 'computers'. Heck we still have a (*@#&$ 8 BIT CHIP IN OUR COMPUTER IN 2010 (the bios). WTF! And x86-64 makers still have to support 32 and 16 bits instruction, which should have died in the 90s and the mid 80s respectively. low level programmers still have to cope with a zillion of opcodes and it's a real bitch to work with considering we have awesome complex architecture like sparc64 with simple instructions.

d) unix not ready for prime time? dude I think you underestimate the number of *nix server running the "internet" and even the number of desktops running any version of it.

e) I understood half of what you said for GUI, but what is the goal of a GUI? Simplicity. Who wins in that category? Simple: Aqua. You may think it's too fisher price or I don't know, but that just means you never tried it for more than a few seconds or had somebody who didn't know much about it like you who showed you around. As I always say... Aqua power user > windows power user. You can do so much more quickly with Aqua than you can with windows and for some obvious reasons (multiple desktops for example) and some technical reason (window pane's threads handling for an example).
And seriously you can't compare under the hood for both. Windows is a real damn cluster**** of bad code freezing and leaving you hopeless to debug while on the other hand if you ask any programmer to describe what is going on under aqua, they will cry of joy explaning to you why it's -so- much better than windows (as in windows the gui).
And if you are takling about under the hood as in the kernel, I have only -one- lil thing to say about it: BSD vs, eh, windows. 'nuff said.

To conclude dare to take OSX out of his "narrow" window and be surprised my friend. You can do absolutely anything with this lil piece of marvel... again ask any programmer who had the chance to work on OSX (kernel programmer if you can) and let them tell you exactly why OSX > Windows.
The reason it doesnt make any sense to you m1dget is the fact you are not a programmer. In the real world on large scale projects different groups are responsible for different parts. NO ONE does it all anymore. The broader the scope the more groups are involved the worse things get. Where there is a LIMITED amount of hardware options on Apples this means fewer groups interacting. The more groups that interact....the more kuldges have to be implemented to get it all to work.

MS on the other hand has to work on the majority of equipment that is out there now AND support 20yr old kit. Apple has the luxury of telling their lemmings to upgrade if they dont like it if new the shiny version breaks past compatibility. Windows cant do that and keep the business spectrum happy. Like I said Apple doesnt have this problem as they dont have a business presence outside of some VERY niche areas to alienate.

As for nix and the internet...when was the last time you saw someone use a server for home use...or anything besides its niche area? Nix is great for somethings, but personal computers aint one of them. This is changing SLOWLY but their is a very elitist attitude associated with that niche. You dont here HWC or other PC enthusiasts telling peeps to RTFM, yet that is a very common response in the nix world.

No the idea behind the GUI interface is not simplicity it is EFFICIENCY. Pretty pictures are simple...but not necessarily efficient at getting work done. And I think "apple poweruser" is an oxymoron. What is there to power? You have a walled garden to play in and cant get out of it.

As for BSD and Apple and the kernel. You are dreaming if you think Apple is open source. At least MS isnt as two faced about it as Apple. Apples is a closed source community and like it that way. They have no problems taking ideas from the open source community but are not exactly free with giving.

As for lots of supported hardware. Please, "lots" and MOST are two different things all together. Saying otherwise is foolish and shows your lack of understanding. There are still MANY pieces of kit and models therein that simply wont work in nix. Once again its getting better...but not ready for prime time yet.

And I know lots of programmers (I once was one myself) that hate Apple for their fascist rules and wont touch it w/ a 10 ft pole. Lots of peeps dont like working on Apple OS. There are many examples of Apple seeing a small apple developer, liking his product, watching it get polished and then rolling it into the next upgrade of the OS and telling the developer to FOAD. Widgets was a great example of that.

As for the tired old "windoze freezes". Puhleeze that was over a decade ago. Stop beating a dead horse. XP was very stable. Win 7 is also very stable. Apple Mac OS X also does crash to you know.
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